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Comment by ChrisKnott | Hacker News Reader

Is there a techbro version of "Karen" because this is that.

I mean, seriously... buying people's personal contact details??

Seriously. My whole thought reading GP's post was "This person is coming across as a complete asshole by their own words, but in their mind they are thinking they are coming across as some kind of hero."

I see no issues with anyone being an asshole once others have driven them to that point. Should people continue to accept abuse and suffering from those who indifferently inflict it?

I agree with this as far as dealing with corporations goes. Somehow society internalized that whatever corporations do wrong is a "corporation's fault", but whatever bad happens to a corporation is a wrongdoing towards the employees.

Corporations are conscience-lacking psychopaths, faceless cowards and abusers, and should be treated as such. They are cowards because they hide behind false appearances - the go-to method of dealing with their own shortcomings. And they are smart about it.

This point is beatifully driven home in a futuristic science-fiction novel "Accelerando" (which is free btw) where corporations based on smart contracts and AI threaten sentient beings uploaded into the net by publishing altered derivatives of public works to reposess unsuspecting readers's minds using copyright law.

I don't know. He's taking it to the actual people responsible, rather than taking it out on call center employees who are understaffed, overworked and powerless to change anything.

It's a brutal power move, but it targets the people actually responsible and it clearly gets results. I think this is way better for everybody involved.

Of course it does depend on the person escalating being correct about the issue, and good and reasonable about explaining it to the person in charge. And we all know that's not going to be true for your average customer. So use this power with discretion.

Seems fair to me. Don't let them hide from the consequences of their shitty decisions by firewalling themselves behind underpaid tech support.

I mean, seriously... wasting the time, patience and goodwill of your paying customers by under-investing in quality customer support and driving down defects??

I know it's popular to diss the "karens" of the world, but a lot of them keep in check businesses that will abuse their customers if they can get away with it. They can be a useful corrective force just like class action lawsuits can be.

A little tin foil hat but I can imagine shitty company engaging marketing companies to spread the Karen meme. It seems like anyone who tries to get proper customer service these days is cancelled with “don’t be a karen” and “#BeKind” (Nb neither of these apply to the companies of course, just customers :-))

I think the difference between a Karen and someone who simply wants adequate customer service is that the Karen will tend to abuse people who a) lack the power to help as they're too far down the corporate ladder and b) will lose their livelihoods if they shout back, making it an unsporting thing to do. You're a Karen if you shriek and stamp your feet at a teenage fast food employee over chips that are too salty, you're not a Karen if you calmly but firmly escalate things to people who do have the power to solve your problem. It's the power dynamic that makes one a Karen, "punching down" is a Karenish move while "punching up" is often fair enough in my opinion.

What's good for the goose...

Yeah, that's excessive. It is just as effective to craft a polite but firm snail-mail letter instead and it's a lot less Karen.

Please stop using a very common name as a derogative! It's insulting to the women who have that name. Also, as you noticed, there is no male version of it. It's a decidedly sexist meme that shouldn't be promoted.

Though Billy No Mates - for the lonely - exists.

Oh hardly, using a sterotypical name is a very common comedic device. Tarquin and Julian are out-of-touch upper class people who probably go on illegal fox hunts, Karen gets unreasonably angry over petty things at low-level customer service people who can't argue back, Doris insists on driving at 25 mph in a 60 while her husband Bernard shouts at passing children for sport. Kevin is roughly the male equivalent of Karen, while Chad is a world-reknowned cad. Billy No Mates is famous for being alone, while Johnny Foreigner occasionally struggles with idioms.

Joe Public of course is usually well aware of this usage and doesn't actually think all people with these names are the sterotype they represent.

>using a sterotypical name is a very common comedic device

It is, and most of these memes keep some of the levity of their comedian origins. This particular meme seems unusually nasty and serious in comparison, but maybe it's just because it hurts someone close to me.

I think it's particularly vitriolic because it represents a deeper social issue, the bullying of underpaid customer service employees who lose their jobs if they defend themselves. The people who suffer most from "Karenish" behaviour can't call an entitled, bullying shitehawk what they are in person so it comes out as a meme. "Doris's" sluggish driving or "Tarquin's" excessive privately-educated mannerisms are merely annoying, while "Karen's" screaming and shouting at people who can't call them out is something worse.

I suppose that doesn't change the fact it's a bit crappy for all the perfectly decent people called Karen out there. While I think this behaviour does need a good snarl word to call it out when it happens, perhaps "Karen" isn't it and we can do better.

Die in a fire

I support you and love you. HN comments are the worst

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