You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance
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I really disagree with the whole "procrastination" thing. It's normal to feel depressed, it's part of nature of being tired, our brains are fragile and require a lot of energy and sleep.
I bet that I would generally would be much happier working at a moderate pace in a farm rather than using my brain to do some other complex thing.
I went to do some military training for 2 weeks, it was quite difficult and demanding, but in a way, it has the good stuff of a holiday: you're outside, you use your arms and legs, you have no time to use your brain which often demands more energy.
Do you really understand how stressful it is for a brain to perform programming? Our bodies are not made to sustain such mental effort. Brains are small but they consume a lot of energy to function.
- You are weak
- Your grandparents had it worse
- Think of the people working for minimum wage
- Some of us actually love programming so much we will happily sacrifice our health; this choice is morally superior because we say so
- I haven't had a vacation in 20 years and neither should you
/sarcasm off
Those ideas, I suspect much more prevalent on HN than other sites, lead to defensiveness when antiwork or work-critical ideas are shared. Arguments about grandparents and weakness are generally missing the point or intellectually dishonest, and I know because I’ve made those arguments/comments many times.
Looking past that defensiveness, I have a hard time arguing that everything above isn’t right; modern work is taxing and when you’re trying to work 8+ (I naturally tend towards 10+) hours a day, stay healthy, and also pursue hobbies and personal development, it is no surprise that people are breaking down.
I want to see more serious engagement with efforts to make work more sustainable for people, ideally without limiting burnout. Maybe the right answer is to just do less, but I want to have my cake and eat it too.
Yeah, see, this right here is the problem. There's this belief that people objecting to current norms and standards around work constitutes "not working hard," which is a non sequitur.
In my experience most people want to work. They just don’t want to do it on the terms currently laid out for them--terms that employers like to pretend are inviolable laws of nature, not choices they make and are responsible for.
The industrial revolution was supposed to free humankind from backbreaking labor and usher in an era of comfortable enlightenment.
Instead, we got rampant inequality, environmental devastation, sociological manipulation, and the internet of shit. (Whose true effects we won't see until Cranky Bear decides to show us all at once.) And huge numbers of people still toil 50+ hours a week to keep their head barely above water.
Work is fine, but the systems surrounding work have robbed us.
I certainly wouldn't want to go back to manual labor, no electricity or indoor plumbing, lack of refrigeration, much more limited options for travel, news and entertainment, and the lack of modern medicine.
For many years I had a sort of ruthless determination to get ahead and work hard. It mostly helped me back then, as many obstacles then were the sort that could be brute-forced, and it was addictive in a way as well. I could feel myself improving, could see the progress happening etc. I made lots of money for a while, got myself and my husband ahead in life etc.
A few things happened that sort of scuttled my motivation. The intrinsic rewards for the hard work I was doing stopped arriving. In order to keep progressing personally, I would need to engage in ever more competitive search for fun/challenging work. The competitive aspect might have excited me in the past, but I had by then been shafted one time too many by petty politics and discrimination to feel much interest in engaging with that aspect of the industry.
I could keep doing senior engineer work, mobile/backend whatever, and occasionally find some new topic to excite me, but often spend most of the time rehashing similar ideas, or cleaning up other people's messes. So I burned out, took some time to address my depression and have gotten myself back together mentally, for the most part (some amount of madness is crucial to hold onto).
But even now, when I look at new programming things I could work on, I can't help but see them all as simply paths back into a world that has lost its luster, full of people and situations that waste my time and energy. I can still work hard and build good software, but I just don't see why I should when it will inevitably lead me back to a place that almost destroyed me. Maybe that isn't true, maybe I should be better about forgetting the past and not presuming what my new experiences will look like. I'd love to be that foolish again someday, but I just can't afford to take that kind of risk anymore.
My temporary solution has been to work on stuff that isn't programming, to become like a beginner again in some other field. Philosophy, political science, history, anthropology, classic literature and others have been great to explore on my own and I've grown from these explorations. So now I'm getting my rewards from new sources. I still have the urge to make money, like a survival instinct, but I'm fortunate to have a decently stable life raft that I can float on for the time being.
"Some amount of madness is crucial to hold onto"
I think I would like this as my epitaph.
Well said. I can also recommend doing electronics along with 3D printing. Come up with simple ideas to ease your life around the house, make some experiments, build little devices. Embedded boards with the power of computers from 20 years ago have just a few centimeters.
That's the problem I have with neoliberals, they want to impose their ideology on the rest of us.
When you optimize for any metric, be it lines of code or bank account balance, you generally get suboptimal results. Doesn't mean the metric is useless. It's just not the only source of truth.
The interesting part is that I can be really exhausted from a day in the woods, struggling to somehow get to the car, etc -- but after 7-8 hours of decent sleep, all of this is gone! No muscle pains next morning, no nothing. It is incredible how well our body can handle and cure physical stress.
Coping with mental exhaustion or overwork, however, seems to be way harder for me -- to the point of ruining the next day entirely. A deep explanation of this deviation (our abilities for physical recovery vs mental recovery) would be really interesting.
The quickest way to crush someone's spirit is to make them feel that their work is for nothing. Making prisoners break rocks in the prison yard, for instance. Or pushing spreadsheets and git commits endlessly, to no tangible change.
Mhm, in physical work, you always see a result -- even if it's a mess or failure. You get direct, no-bullshit feedback every single day. Mental work, in contrast, most typically ends in an abstraction: you work all day long and there is a result, but you can't always see it the way you see a planted tree in the forest.
Yup, I'm a primitive creature, devastatingly tied to the simplest of my senses: seeing, hearing, touching.
I work 18 hours on a presentation for the exec at work and the next day it is like it never happened. I never get the real mental pay off that I would get if I spent 18 hours clearing a paddock.
I don't claim to know if conclusion would be different or the same, though.
Instead we all get free subscriptions to meditation apps now. Thanks for the stopwatch. Can I go outside now?
I left the software industry for several years to do a job that required getting up and moving around, leaving the building, interacting with people... it was tiring, but in a much different way than programming. A much better way, if that makes any sense. It’s difficult to describe. But I’m convinced that office work is poison at the doses we take it.
That's because the driving factor (at least in capitalist regions) seem to be to extract as much value from everyone while compensating them as little as possible. "Working less" isn't even on these people's radars. If they had their way, they'd own every minute of their employee's lives.
Or that evolution works to make big changes in cycles of 1000s of years, and that 6 million years of hominin evolution out in nature in accordance with pre-electricity natural day cycles (and more malleable schedules), are not compatible with the mandatory:
(1) ass in the chair,
(2) looking at a screen,
(3) working with abstract information,
(4) 9 to 5, 5 days a week,
(5) inside an interior environment
(6) with technical lighting"
that's been "the norm" for a large part of the population since the 60s...
(or with factory-style work, that's been imposed on populations since the 18th century).
A lot of people work more than 40 hours a week, plus additional time spent learning and so on...
But I wanted to state the minimum typical requirement, and show it's bad enough already.
I spent some time working with commercial HVAC and some of the problems there were on par with the most difficult technical problems I've worked through in information systems. The difference is that, with HVAC, all of that effort results in an outcome that connects with the limbic system in a way that doubling throughput or halving latency doesn't.
Even if I am not writing code, fixing things in the house, personal projects, helping others, just doing something is fun and challenging.
Competition is inherent to human experience. Watching sports wouldn’t be popular otherwise.
A world where everyone not competing to be their best would be an extremely depressing place.
I'm really curious what the language/spin was to make that something that was included in the advertising.
Although reading it again ...
> In Mountain View, landlords raised rents when they heard companies were giving a bonus for people living within 15 miles. Some even included it in their advertising.
I've never been to the west coast, but I would assume that location to the various offices would already be part of the advertising. I regularly see it in this area for Epic and the University.
Why would that be? Two years is only four percent of a working lifetime and it won't be at the same time for everyone. And not every company takes two years to create anyway.
Another way of looking at it is that two years is less time than it takes to get a degree.
Maybe Babel was the best thing that ever happened to us.
Then it immediately defines a new term "internal resistance" that's exactly defined as something that's "a part of us" and explains how to work around it or "tame it".
> 1. Recognise that internal resistance is on your side. Part of what is so awful about the cycle-of-not-doing-the-thing is that it feels so self-destructive. But internal resistance does not want to destroy us; it literally wants the opposite! It only exists to protect us from pain.
also
> There’s another reason why I think we should treat internal resistance as a form of wisdom rather than a malevolent opponent. It holds a lot of knowledge about what we secretly believe we might be able to do.
I think it is very beneficial to see this 'Resistance' as a force inside you, mostly trying to keep the status quo, for your benefit, unfortunately sometimes to the point of halting you in all things possible.
Maybe I am reading to much into this article with my already set up view, but my view is to recognize this part in us, that does not want things done/changed and acknowledge its existence (which we often want to ignore, bypass), explore possible why's. This can be a really intimate experience, the a-ha moment. The first (and most important step) would be acknowledgment of its existence.
The article’s set up is actually quite harmful and disempowering. It identifies resistance as a bundle of fears and pain to be overcome in order to be able to ‘just do’ the thing you are trying to do.
Obviously sometimes fear and pain do exist, and acceptance and awareness of them makes it easier to move forward.
However most of the time I have found that the reason people find themselves ‘resisting’ things they want to do is that they lack some pragmatic knowledge of what the next step should be and how to incorporate the overall goal into whatever else they are doing. People who have learned that resistance means they need to let go of fear or pain can get caught in a loop of looking for emotional blocks where none exist, rather than just educating themselves on the problem.
‘You aren’t lazy, you just haven’t done the necessary prep and planning to make the thing you want to do feel straightforward’ might be just as useful advice.
I think I wanted to see more in this article. I think the idea of acknowledging this part of us and seeing it as a positive force is not conveyed clearly enough, but it's there.
> ‘You aren’t lazy, you just haven’t done the necessary prep and planning to make the thing you want to do feel straightforward’ might be just as useful advice.
Yes. This would be a subset of "it's too difficult (emotionally, organizationally, in terms of ability/skill) for me to do all this stuff the way I never did before" - emotions of discomfort arise (said 'Resistance') and boom, you are back to square one (edit: ...of not doing things).
What do you mean by back to square one?
> Yes. This would be a subset of "it's too difficult
I don’t see how this follows. Recognizing that you haven’t done the prep means it’s not too difficult if you do the prep.
If instead of doing the prep you go introspecting for fears and pain you will fail because you aren’t doing the next step, and that will in turn undermine your self belief and reinforce the idea that you need to do more introspection to overcome your resistance.
A lot of cults fuck people up with isomorphs of this idea.
I simply say - every part of endeavor may be bringing you down. Your emotions (fears - of failure, of success, what not), your incompetence (including inability to do necessary preparation you mentioned), and so on. Naturally, you have to address those different facets differently - handle the emotion with some introspection, learn to do the prep and planning (skill). Diving 'inside' will obviously not solve the lack of skill or lack of other resources - turning more and more inward would be absolutely wrong way, searching for fears and blowing them up.
Agreed. This is the issue I am pointing to. Which is why teaching people to view themselves as ‘resistant’ is harmful.
If you are afraid of something, you are afraid of something. If you are ignorant, you are ignorant. If you lack skills then you are unskilled, etc.
There is no point in using the meaningless proxy concept of ‘resistance’, which raises the question “resistant to what?”. In each of these cases there is nothing being ‘resisted’.
I didn't read that at all. The author is suggesting you acknowledge and face those feelings and what they may be trying to tell you about how you feel about your goals or work.
Sometimes the fears are that your effort will be pointless and unrewarded. In that case, assuming those fears are well grounded, the author suggests rethinking your plans and not necessarily trying to overpower your resistance.
That matches my experience in some cases, though obviously not all.
This isn’t a bad thing, it’s just important to point out there is a prerequisite condition that must be met before this advice becomes useful.
I couldn't be happier this came across the HN feed today, because it seems to accurately answer so many questions I've had about my performance on personal projects recently.
I spent months working on the next version of https://vo.codes, and I've only got about five hours of frontend work to do before launching it. I've sit on it for a month now.
What I think is happening is that I'm worried about my next project in virtual production (which I'm picking back up). I'm worried I've fallen too far behind, that the incumbent powers have already won and that I'll be wasting my energy. But I still think I have tremendous value to add, and that there is a discernable path to success, and that I'm holding myself back by worrying about vo.codes. It's caused a sort of deadlock.
This has helped me make sense of it and approach it a new way. Hopefully it's the nudge I needed to unblock myself.
Anxiety, ADHD, internal resistance. I shouldn't blame myself so much.
I academically excelled, have a successful career, an early employee IPO exit, and a spate of really interesting side projects.
Yet I struggle with leading a normal life, prioritizing, sporadic and extreme hyper-focus, and frequent loss of interest. (If something doesn't interest me, I just won't do it. I have to pay people to do taxes, and I sometimes wish I could pay people to do my job or parts of it.)
Anecdotal, but I think your characterization could be misleading.
Please let me add another to the voices saying that the advice you take on a medical matter should not be that of a random internet stranger. Please do talk to a professional about it!
I think part of it lies with the final tasks being perceived as easy and routine, which is difficult for my brain to view as anything other than "busy work".
Of course much of the nature of the work can be that way, but in aggregate can be challenging enough to spur interest. Until the end, that is.
One hack I have is to have larger plans in mind for what needs to be done after launch. The next arcs of work. Make them big, and then finishing can feel like you're not even close to done.
> Internal resistance is not immovable — it responds to reason, to alternative scenarios, to making space for the emotions that seem like such a threat
This has not been my experience. My own internal resistance responds to people being impressed with what I'm doing and expressing that to me, or a eureka moment (which typically come when I'm watching Star Trek or cooking a meal or doing some other activity instead of the thing I'm trying to accomplish). The eureka moment trigger is a special circumstance though; most of the time if there's a puzzle to solve I won't disengage from the problem. Usually I just have seemingly random bouts of productivity. I feel very fortunate to have a job that allows me to work when I'm mentally able.
This seems like a creative explanation that probably makes an article such as this seem a bit more quirky and interesting or something. Otherwise it's not a bad piece, but I don't think potential loss of love or connection is necessary to explain not wanting to do some difficult/annoying/time consuming task.
Hence that line is more for people who resist finding new connections to people because of past problems. Learned fear of action is just that - learned. And it can be unlearned given the time and practice.
If it was meant to be about more personal relationship type stuff the author could have discussed that explicitly. Maybe the piece needed an extra paragraph to explain better what the link was.
From experience its usually better to ask people currently struggling to write what their problem is. It's usually so personal and unique that a blanket "you can do it" isn't as helpful as it might sound. If very nicely intended and being supportive.
Aside, I don't feel the need to add the letters after my name for some reason, might be because I'm still engaged in research and find this off putting...
Internal resistance is an attempt to avoid the pain we associate with successfully doing the thing.
We subconsciously believe that succeeding in doing something — that we’ve presumably never done before — will cause us some “emotional pain”, thus we go to lengths to avoid it? If what we’re attempting is novel, how could we possibly know that? Even if we were to assume that, why would this “pain” override the elation of success?I can understand the argument that people procrastinate because of the fear of failure…but the fear of success? I don’t get it.
Made something amazing on the computer? Stop playing on the computer, go outside instead.
Made a lot of money? Get robbed.
Etc.
Let's also say that parent was either terrible at being a parent or a bad spouse. If they were a bad parent, that impacted you directly and if they were a bad spouse, that may have impacted someone you care about aka the other parent.
You may have at some point in your childhood created an emotional connection between:
- good at business
- bad at parenting/being spouse
You in turn might then equate "being successful" with "being a bad person". Let me stop here and say: yes, this is totally irrational but emotions are, by definition, not always rational.
Given the above, it wouldn't be surprising that you might develop a "fear of success". Particularly so if your goal is to be a better parent/spouse than the offending parent. In other words, "I don't want to be like them!" might affect both the parenting/spouse side of things and, because they are conflated, success in business.
I guess "internal resistance" is a kind of bias towards inaction. Not a bad trait if you're in a resource constrained scarcity environment, but it's not a great strategy outside of that. If there's anything to overcome its probably a scarcity mindset when it's unfounded.
That success (defined as successfully completing required work) causes damage, causes pain, often not as a side effect of the work that needs to be put in to achieve success, but by the success itself.
That parts of us recognizes the harm of success and resists when the other part pushes blindly for what it thinks the end goal should be.
Also mitigation strategies seem novel. Discovering what you fear about successfully finishing your work and trying to lessen the strength of those fears. Or doing small steps like acknowledging that doing 30 minutes of work will not result in achieving success so you can do that amount of work safely.
One common fear might be of that the result of you successfully finishing your task won't live up to your imagination about it.
While this sounds good, and I think is a reasonable guide for many life choices, it's simply not true. If I want to lift that enormous boulder over there, then it's not that I won't, it's that I can't. (Maybe this needs caveats: if I want to lift that enormous boulder over there only using my hands, etc.)
I could believe something like "it's never that you can't try, but that you won't try", and that covers a lot of my procrastination; but I'm not sure if it's strong enough to cover the point you'd like to make.
In a professional and career context, however, you would be required to get tasks done straight away. But for artists and even dedicated loafers or those who enjoy being idle, the important stuff rises to the top naturally and it gets done.
I've heard of a strategy where you think really hard about a problem, and then you go and do other unrelated things and your mind will come up with a solution. I have found that this does happen in practice. By stepping away from the problem, I'm basically forgetting all the context that made me approach the problem from the original angle and thus my mind tries a different approach. Often this new approach will also not work, but there might be things I discover when trying these approaches that lead to yet another approach.... I guess this process goes on until either a good enough solution is found or I give up.
Unfortunately, in my experience, I’m more likely to just determine the hard problem is not worth the effort to complete.
The first person will do the task, they just deemed it not worthy of their focused effort. The second person will find any excuse not to do it at all, which is the ‘resistance’ the article talks about.
You are "lazy" if you don't do something that would benefit you because it's too much effort. That sounds reasonable, right? Except according to this article, you're not lazy, you have "internal resistance." Or in similar articles, you're not lazy if you have depression or ADHD, because it's your mental illness.
But then, who is lazy? Where do we draw the line when someone is depressed vs. merely sad, or ADHD vs. merely inattentive? Moreover, since you can't always tell of someone has a mental illness and you definitely can't see "internal resistance", you technically can't state that anyone is lazy.
Now, I don't want to attack people with mental illnesses. If you have depression or ADHD or burnout or are overwhelmed, you're not a bad person. But you are lazy. Calling it something else is just beating around the bush.
Instead, we as a society need to change how we look at laziness. Just because you're lazy, doesn't mean you should punish yourself, or consider yourself "worse" than someone with more discipline. Don't even try to just "power through" the laziness. None of those things work, and often actually lead to more laziness. Honestly, the author does a good job explaining what you should do. But - if you're lazy, you're lazy, and calling it something else like "internal resistance" is just sugar-coating it.
But to laziness, work is punishment.
Some things, such as getting fit or studying, are going to take effort. But the effort is an unintended side-effect of the work, not the goal. In my experience, if you work towards the solution and not think of it as "putting in X effort", the perceived effort is a lot less.
That said, it doesn't really give me new tools or tricks to deal with the problems?
It's still the same: podomoro or timeboxing, giving oneself a reward for completing an objective, trying to complete a given task every week, and so forth.
I supposed I could give mental health therapies a try, I guess?
Don't want to play armchair therapist, but that's really the best anyone can really do.
There are exercises you can do, mentally and physically, which can help guide you through self-improvement, but they all require that we actually do them.
Some times is feels like I go years without making any progress with myself. Other times is just takes a small new action to gain remarkable results. Like you, I'm not sure it could have gone any faster and that's okay.
The most important part of that process is continually (once a week or a couple times a month, in my opinion) taking a step back and assessing what is and isn’t working for you, then taking the time to find a way around it.
And by "it" I mean the important thing that you are resisting.
It's actually a bad thing. And you have convinced yourself that it's a good thing. But you aren't completely convinced.
Deep down you know that it really is a very bad thing. One more step on a march of doom that you have been trying to escape since forever. A special door that, once passed through, your waste and hell will truly and finally be LOCKED IN (relatively speaking).
I mean, nobody dreams as a child of sitting on their office-butt playing mental legos forever. But it's very easy to convince yourself that it is great. And the whole world will help you in that endeavor. It will tell you encouraging stories and feed you big paychecks. It will tell you that you are a rock star.
You will be helped at every turn to forget the life that you lost and to pretend that playing robot is a truly good and desirable thing.
Maybe this great procrastination is your gut trying to tell you something.
What life would that be?
In the centre of it all, Your eyes
Why on earth does an eloquent academic need to say f*ing or gorramit every couple of sentences? It is not just needles, it is also bad taste.
I disagree somewhat, and I have a different explanation.
---
Each one of us is born with talents (gifts) and some weaknesses.
If we grow up, and then become adults in the environment that does not discover our talents, and, opposite, emphasises our weaknesses -- then we become:
- unhappy,
- dis-engaged,
- often resort to cheating as a way to 'pad up' our weaknesses,
- often blaim others. Sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not.
The environment in which we grow up -- does not really depend on us. Depends on parents, state of peace, state of economy.Yes, we have to be adaptable, but when the adoptation requires us to compete in fields, eco-systems that does not emphsize our inborn talents -- we do not do well.
We are not all meant to be technology visionaries, data scientists, lawyers, public speakers, and surgeons.
But a society, an economic system that emphasises one of the above (as an example), is forcing the rest to 'adjust'.
That 'adjustment' - is the friction. But it does not just depend on an individual.
Really, a global solution is the one, that takes advantage of the different talents we have. That should be the purpose of statesman (not career politicians), that offer to dedicate their service to their country (or the world).
And, certainly on a personal level
- honesty,
- work ethic
- rejection of ideologies that justify 'achieve whatever using any means necessary',
- rejection of unfair biases (biases based on inborn characterists that 'lock down person's fate)
Would have to be part of that solution.Believing that you always have something unique, something specially good, specially powerfull about yourself -- has to be emphrasized, at a personal level.
Let me check... of course he's a "coach"... If you can't do, teach, I guess.
All of this shit will act as a bandaid, a crutch at best. It's like the bullshit "imagine you're wealthy and you will become wealthy".
No, that doesn't work. Nor does praying to God, nor anything that doesn't entail actual action. You can imagine whatever the fork you want, it won't make it real.
Fortunately, people smarter than me and all of these self help coaches and theorycrafters have already started figuring out how to fix this problem for real, by applying real science to the very real bio computer in our skulls.
It's still a young science, with parts of the same core problem being labeled ADD, OCD, anxiety, depression. But there are real drugs that actually work.
The biggest roadblock is getting this accepted as a treatable condition by the mainstream medicine systems. They're still in the dark ages and treat it like they treat death - as inevitable, unfixable.
Some people are already benefitting from it while the majority is laughing at them and calling the unfortunate ones who don't have access to good doctors and good medicine lazy.
I hope one day humans look back at it and laugh at how ridiculously stupid their ancestors were.
Yet you also cannot make real something you didn't imagine, except by accident. Priming works, hence "fake it till you make it".
In case you have not seen it, Scott Alexander (a psychiatrist) has a resource on antidepressent supplements here:
also here:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-...
Wherever you live there are also suicide prevention hotlines you can try calling.