Ask HN: Is there a dedicated programming language for business logic? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Is there a dedicated programming language for business logic?

8 pointsusername9011 comments

I feel the main problem delivering value is that codebases are too big and complex. If we made a business logic language intentionally made to be sandboxed which doesn't let you refer to code in other files or include libraries that would help a lot separating business logic from infrastructure code.

The way it would be used is that programmers writes some interface in their language, and then that interface becomes a compiler that can verify and compile a business logic script file. The script would run in a sandboxed environment with resource restrictions so it can't run too long or crash the server.

Such a language wouldn't just help people write code files for apps, but could also enable just having a textbox field where you could add programs to filter or sort results to your liking etc. I guess you could view it in the same way as the popular regular expression language that is embedded in so many apps and programs, but with enough power that it would cover most business logic needs.

Since it was designed from the start to be sandboxed like this it wont be hard to make it safe, and as it gets wider appeal more people would get interested in programming. That is the theory at least, is anyone aware of attempts to do this? The requirement that it can't depend on external code is absolutely necessary though, that is the main advantage of regular expressions and why you can easily embed those in API's.

Put your business logic in a database and use SQL (not an ORM) to extract and manipulate your business data. Use a supporting programming language to transform the data into a presentation suitable for users e.g. a web page.

To make this work well, you must put serious effort into creating a database schema (design) that meets the criteria for normalisation - up to third normal form. Do this even if you later decide to de-normalise.

Some developers are against the idea of placing business logic in a database. But I'd argue that business logic in your database minimises the code in the supporting programming codebase.

Of course, business logic can't always be clearly separated by database and code, but favour the database over the programming code for business logic when possible.

I can think of a couple. DMN kinda does this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_Model_and_Notation

and Drools: https://www.drools.org

There are papers describing using OWL for biz rules, too: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-32689-....

One of the biggest problems (IMHO) in this space (which I've worked in CLIPS-based systems http://clipsrules.sourceforge.net) is that business rules are often not as "logical" as they seem and can cause real problems for novices without formal logic training. Sometimes the business rules aren't even "rules" as such, which makes it really hard to both create and explain.

In my case I’d go for embedded Lua with all the business logic in Lua and all the infra code in the host language (Go, Rust, etc…)

What I have found with this approach is that sometimes it can be difficult to draw a clear line between business logic code and infrastructure code.

Traversing through a list of customers to make a report… do you call a dedicated function or do it on the scripting language? If you need a slightly different report format (including address + phone number) do you write a new function on the host lang or implement it as business logic?

IBM has something like that: https://www.ibm.com/products/operational-decision-manager

I believe it used to be called ILOG. I’ve never used it.

COBOL may fit your bill (and then some).

Now, on a more serious note. Codebases are too big and complex precisely because business rules are a mess. Disabling composition, modularity won't help you in the slightest.

I think I have something very interesting to share here that's used in the real world and recently open sourced.

https://morphir.finos.org/

Everything today is so inter linked it's hard to imagine a useful app that doesn't require other code or files. We had that on the home computers of the 80s but I don't think it's viable anymore.

Check out rules engines.

Also you're describing the architectural drivers that give rise to plugin systems or device drivers in OSes.

As a counterpoint check out the inner-platform anti-pattern.

Lol yes. It’s called Node.js

You are describing Excel.

Mysql and Php!!

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