Hacker News Reader

Comment by rwmj | Hacker News Reader

Are you claiming that Tesla vehicles are fraudulent and only drive when rolling down hills?

No, parent is likely saying Elon could be indicted for fraud as well. He wasn't exactly exonerated by the SEC for 'funding secured', and there are a number of lawsuits outstanding, most notably the Solar City one.

Just because you have an innovative and popular product doesn't mean you can't conduct fraud?

Sounds like you think this is a non ridiculous comparison? A market moving statement comparable to theranos vaporware

Did Enron just use aggressive accounting? Did Wirecard just overpay for its acquisitions and hide the losses in its balance sheet?

What type of fraud is still okay - where do you draw the line?

Sounds like you're trying to blur the fraud line and make weak comparisons when no one is in disagreement over Enron, Wildcard or Nicola

The number of Tesla haters on HN is bizarre.

You have to realize there are a LOT of people on here who fail to launch successful startups. Lots of projecting and sour grapes.

Ya, that's a good point, and I never thought about the selection bias.

Also, most people only read headlines. There has been so much FUD in the news about Tesla and Musk. If you’re not following things closely, watching all his interviews, etc, then it’s easy to believe what you read in sensationalized clickbait headlines

Musk is pretty much the dream of what every nerd wants to become. There's a lot of jaded people on HN who think they are just as smart/talented as Musk but don't have anywhere near the success.

They deal with the cognitive dissonance by calling him a fraud/scammer or wanting to see him fail. Fanboys of Musk aren't much better, Musk just seems to attract extremists on either side of the aisle who either love him or hate him

I agree, but regardless I dont see why we call cant agree that for all of the guy's faults, he is done some truly incredible things and he is still pretty young. He is a net positive for the world.

Because of my consulting gigs, I know of at least 3 multimillionaires (>$100MM), who are hoarding air tanks (similar to scuba tanks, but there is already a small company that produces much larger, home-style tanks for this purpose) because someone in Musk circles told them Musk is doing so, so they assume this could be end-of-the-world scenario.

Imagine our atmosphere to be like a giant balloon. And SpaceX rockets are scratching [2] that balloon surfaces every time they go up [1]. Who knows, maybe one day one of the rockets will scratch it enough and our ionosphere goes pop, so to speak.

[1] conspiracy theory much? Here is an article based on scientists approach: https://fortune.com/2018/03/26/elon-musk-spacex-falcon-9-ion...

[2] funny story, a friend who works for NASA told me years ago how upset the management was when they found out that SpaceX rockets are not flying flat enough to enter the Orbit in a gently manner. There is no gov. oversight (yet) because there are very few companies that can reach LEO so in theory regulations are not important, but few people know NASA spent more money flying rockets because they fly them in a way not to tore holes in an ionosphere which probably I don't have to tell you how important it is to ALL life on Earth. In some way, today's SpaceX is a space pirate, and had there been proper regulations, they would have not be saving anywhere near as much money as they do now flying when comparing to NASA.

I don't understand how this is relevant?

I don’t understand why you say musk fans aren’t any better.

If you’re going to be a fan of someone, why not someone who is transitioning the world to sustainable energy and trying to make humanity a multi-planetary species?

there's a difference between a fan and a fan boy who worships everything he does.

FSD (Full Self Driving) feature in Tesla Cars is fraudulently advertised and has put many Tesla customers lives at great risk and has also killed them too. [0]

Do you not want to warn others about this scam that Tesla is selling that can cause someone to believe it and lose their life when the software malfunctions or gets confused?

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/05/business/tesla-autopilot-...

Tesla is selling Full Self Driving when they do not have the technology.

Auto pilot full self driving is fraudulent and been coming next year for half a decade.

I've been following Tesla and Elon Musk for a few years already and I've seen many instances when you can see Elon doing dubious stuff.

Just before of Tesla's acquisition of Solar City (his cousin's company) they presented the Solar roof [0]. It has been reported [1] that the roof just didn't work, it didn't generate any electricity. In fact, my understanding is that even today they are having many issues with the system. How is announcing a "solar roof" that doesn't generate electricity different that announcing a truck that doesn't move?

Also, people often forget that when Nikola went mainstream, an email from Elon Musk was leaked to the press stating that Tesla was going to ramp up production of the Tesla Semi [3]. Goes without saying that the Tesla Semi has been delayed yet another year since its unveiling back in 2017.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sfwDyiPTdU

[1] https://www.fastcompany.com/40422084/inside-steel-pulse-the-...

[2] https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/06/10/musk-presses-the-g...

fraudulent? yes.

“full self driving”? fraud.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com