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Comment by wutwutwutwut | Hacker News Reader

Yes, he was. Many people in US specifically does not seem to have knowledge about how other countries are governed.

Presumably the US government stores passport photographs, and the state governments store driving license photographs.

(Estonia has a similar population to Maine or New Hampshire, 1.3 million people.)

They do now. There was a time when you could go to the DMV and switch places with your friend right before the photo for the ID was taken. If you were under 21 and your friend was older, you had a real fake ID made for you by the state. At least in Illinois that was the case when I was still underage. Now they do see the older photo come up when renewing a license, presumably to prevent swapping.

Seems like a dumb thing for your friend to do for you when that photo will be part of a permanent database.

The purpose of that anecdote was to demonstrate that there was no database at that time.

> There was a time when you could go to the DMV and switch places with your friend right before the photo for the ID was taken.

But wouldn't that mean your friend no longer had a valid drivers license ?

The old license is not effectively invalidated in any way. Almost nobody you presented the license to would know that another one has been issued, besides possibly a police officer. It would be fairly easy to tell them that you got a replacement and then found the old one.

> The old license is not effectively invalidated in any way. Almost nobody you presented the license to would know that another one has been issued

That’s strange. Where I live, if you get a new ID you have to turn in your old one. You can keep a passport if you want (some people like to if they have a ot of stamps from their travels) but in that case they punch a couple of big holes through the entire booklet before returning it to you (basically, it removes the chip and some other security measures).

They do ask you to do that, but what if you lost it?

If you lost it you have to go to the police and report it lost. Then you need to hand over the police report when you request a new one. Reporting it lost or stolen also invalidates your drivers license meaning you can’t drive while you wait for your new license.

I see. In what region are you referring to? I have never lived in a state with any sort of concept of rendering your license invalid because you lost a physical license, nor have I been told to file a police report.

I looked it up for my state and they said you only must file a police report if you believe your license has been stolen, not lost, and you desire a new number. I’m sure policies differ among states.

I picked Michigan at random. Their website merely warns that the old license will be invalidated electronically and cannot be used for border crossing while encouraging use of online replacement services.

https://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1627_8669_53328---...

> In what region are you referring to?

The Netherlands.

> rendering your license invalid because you lost a physical license

If you lost it, you can't drive anyway. Why would you not invalidate a lost license ? To clarify: the physical license is invalidated, and since you need to have a physical license on you to be allowed to drive, you can not drive until you get a new physical license.

If you fraudulently report your license as stolen, it is invalidated and you can no longer drive using that physical license. If you get a new one with someone else's photo on it, that basically means you can no longer drive a car.

I see. In the US, I've been stopped before when I didn't have my license with me and the officer looked it up on his computer. Of course you're expected to have the card with you, but that's a relatively minor requirement compared to having a valid license in the system. Forgetting your wallet at home isn't on the same level as being unlicensed.

I noted this earlier: " Almost nobody you presented the license to would know that another one has been issued, besides possibly a police officer." So the usefulness is for situations that are not driving and don't involve police. One could still definitely use the 'lost' license to get into bars or concerts, start accounts, and purchase alcohol or cigarettes.

> I've been stopped before when I didn't have my license with me and the officer looked it up on his computer.

If he looks it up in his computer, wouldn't it show the wrong photo ?

Also, if you don't have a valid license your insurance may not pay out in case you are in an accident.

That example was addressing whether it's legal/forgivable to drive without a physical license in your possession in the US. In my experience, it is, and also there's not an issue with insurance because you are legally licensed to drive.

As for the example of the fraudulent license holder, yes, the officer would probably be able to tell, which is what I've been saying this whole time - one would not want to present the old or the new license to the police.

Sure, an illegal license holder presumably either doesn't care or isn't prepared to deal with an auto accident, in which they would have to pretend to be the person on the license and it would go on that other person's record.

Someone I know did this with his brothers documents without his brother being involved. He took the documents to the DMV and said he lost his license. Pretty much all they had to go on was basic appearance metrics and questions like where you got your license last time. This was in the 90s so it’s possible it might not be as easy now.

In my state, and I assume most/all(?) others, it's all electronic. When I had to replace a lost license a few years back, it was very easy. Go to a website and pay $25 or whatever. But there's no new photo involved.

For the most recent state I lived in, IDs are issues for four years. If lost during that time, they give you an identical replacement if in the first 2 years but require a new picture if replaced in the second half.

A distant acquaintance did that in the early 90s, only that person asked for a new drivers license. The clerk attempted to offer a duplicate instead of a new license and the nervous license getter refused until the clerk said, "look I'm trying to save you some money, we still take your picture and give you the license today!"

Only ~30% of Americans have a passport, so the passport database is nothing like comprehensive.

From what I recall, in a fairly recent traffic stop in my home state the police officer had access to all of my license information including the photo.

State governments have to turn over all of the DL/ID data to the feds these days under the new backdoor federal ID law ("Real ID").

Well, is not it simply because the rest of us living outside of the US are frequently exposed to US politics via mainstream media? Since there is 160+ countries in the world, this exposure can be hardly symmetrical.

I'm sure, but even as a person living in the US, having knowledge on how your own country differs from all others make sense.

I'm from Denmark, not the US, and they don't store my picture by default. The passport picture is stored in the chip and then supposedly discarded.

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