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Comment by ano88888 | Hacker News Reader

Given dang's comment on guideline, I really don't want to comment back . However, I am just feeling so angry. So many people have unnecessarily died because someone has the wrong idea of risk calculation or political bias in disguise despite all the scientific data. I am sorry. You have a right to not be vaccinated. You have a right to whine about it. But government and organizations also have the right from preventing you to harm others. Still find it difficult to understand why are there so many selfish people in the world. I know it is wrong, but secretly I am not sorry about people like you getting infected or hospitalized. The world might be a better place. Sorry Dang, I deserve the downvotes for not following the guideline as this is an emotional response.

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There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. A vaccine is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family from disease.

The only critical aspect of this situation is that there are kids and people who can't get the vaccine. It would be great if we could protect them and people who work with kids/medical personnel should be obligated to get the vaccine with full reimbursement in case of side-effects. We should absolutely work to have healthier indoors climate through filtering, venting, etc. And I think we should all wear masks when e.g. going to the doctor or in public transport. But none of that will happen, we'll probably continue to spit on each-other and breathe stale air.

> There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers.

Not wanting to do something to help others is the definition of selfish, even if it's your right.

Give me one of your kidneys.

My replies were throttled and someone beat me to the punch... :-)

It's not that simple and a very important factor is what that something is. To give an extreme example, we don't call people that don't donate a kidney to help others selfish, even if the others may die without the kidney. We don't even call those that don't want to donate organs after death selfish.

The more accurate statement is therefore that those who get vaccinated (primarily) to help others are selfless. It's good for the rest of us that they exist, but we can't and should not make those that don't want to do this feel guilty, because there's like I mentioned nothing to be guilty of, given the current state of the pandemic.

It's probably a good idea to make it mandatory for medical professionals and people working with kids, as long as the government (or even better the vaccine manufacturer) takes responsibility for any and all side-effects. And if the pandemic changes course and vaccines stop working, putting us in an endless cycle of flare-ups and vaccinations - then it would be worth it to consider vaccination a duty for all people.

It is dishonest to frame the argument in this way.

A better way to see vaccine mandates is that it will remove one of the fundamental checks and measures from capitalism that ensures the consumer get a quality product.

If a product become mandated, then the producer have a vastly less incentive to maintain the quality of the product. And this is the real danger.

The ability of a consumer to reject a product based on what they see, is the crux of our system of economy, and it cannot be removed or written off, no matter what.

But the companies would love to write it off, and point to authorities like CDC, and say, "Hey, look, you are still protected by these agencies", and the proceed to buy them off (or have them already on the pay roll), and in the end, consumer gets fucked.

And keeping people who have decided not to get vaccinated out of the workplace is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family.

I'm sorry if someone's decision not to get vaccinated costs them their job, but I have to protect myself and my family.

I find it disturbing that you view the concept of freedom as selfish.

>I am not sorry about people like you getting infected or hospitalized.

I was one of those people this time last year. No one was feeling sorry then either.

Don't worry I'll get a booster shot when it is due, but I've done my part. Please don't lump me in with the unvaxxed.

EDIT: to be clear, i was just an innocent bystander who caught covid-19 early on while no one could possibly believe i was having the symptoms that we are all so deathly afraid of now. i survived, i have this persistent feeling of weirdness and random twinges of pains, but i survived it without a vaccine. i don't know what a vaccine is going to do for me (at this junction in time, maybe T+12 months will be different lets see what the science says)

Obviously he was referring to people with the possibility of having the vaccine which deliberately reject it, not people who couldn't have it.

> don't know what a vaccine is going to do for me (at this junction in time, maybe T+12 months will be different lets see what the science says)

We do know what a vaccine does, especially in the case of viral vectors(they’ve been around for decades). What specifically seems to be unknown?

Can you provide a reference to a single viral vector vaccine with widespread usage prior to this year?

I’m talking about viral vector as a delivery method. And you’re talking about testing a COVID-19 vaccine, right? Of course there’s none. But there’s no way to do a long-term testing of a particular COVID-19 vaccine. By the time you finish the study it’s going to be too late. So if someone says “But a vaccine hasn’t been studied long enough!” they just propose to not vaccinate at all and rely on lockdowns/post-illness immunity. However, we’ve got sufficient knowledge about the mechanism of the used vaccines to say they’re sufficiently safe.

I'm not talking about just COVID-19 vaccines, I am talking about any vaccine that uses viral vector as a delivery method.

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