Does anyone have any more specific information aside from "widespread sexism"? It would be good to know exactly what is prompting this walkout, and exactly what changes they're hoping to achieve with it.
Wild
First, pay and promotion discrimination are widespread and are less shocking. Acceptable? No. I like DFEH's authority to go hard after companies to get this addressed, but I somehow shrug and say "Let the lawsuit parade begin. Ok, Blizzrad can go first."
Second, some of the anecdotes in the Blizzard complaint come off as problematic but not shocking. "Cube crawls" which seem like "get drunk at work" parties that led to sexual harassment: getting drunk at work is a management-stupid recipe for trouble. DFEH Lawsuit worth? Less obvious.
Third, the named executive who was a creep comes off as a problem for that creep. He was let go quietly and management didn't otherwise change. It's hard to tell if this is worse than average for creep executives. Lawsuit worthy by DFEH? Unlikely on its own: management acted to address the issue.
But the suicide. The victim was exploited, harassed, and abused as an employee. The complaint insinuates that her traveling coworker had demeaning sex toys on hand. It's not obvious if she was the intended subject of the coworker toys, but it is implied. Her suicide seems to have been preventable and, therefore, tragic. More than anything else it suggests that the other elements of the complaint led her to a feeling of hopelessness in her work environment. It is not a stretch to imagine that she was not alone in that feeling as a result of that environment.
RIP, victim. The lawsuit will bring insufficient justice for you and negligible peace for your family. Perhaps it will begin some broader change.
The tone at the top.
Pretty fucked situation
When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment?
Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "ribs" you when they know you know they're not being serious. (That is why the definition of ribbing is "good-natured teasing".)
Of course, the danger there is misinterpretation (perhaps with self-fulfilling negative expectations primed by media, but I digress)
I may be biased, I spent 4 years in the military where ribbing was literally CONSTANT (it was worse than anyplace else I've worked) and the women there really had to have a thick skin. (I'm also 49 years old and a lot has changed.)
Note: Some of the claims made here go far beyond "ribbing". I'm not talking about those.
To say "Guys are just ribbing eachother" ignores people that observe that behavior and find it uncomfortable/hostile/toxic. This is also an extremely generous description of what happened. Women were harassed, both sexually and not. Their pay was lower, their performance reviews were tougher, they were fired more frequently. Worse, they were groped, sexually harassed/assaulted, one of them commit suicide over it. To compare "guys just ribbing" to what happened is a real gross take.
> I may be biased, I spent 4 years in the military where ribbing was literally CONSTANT (it was worse than anyplace else I've worked) and the women there really had to have a thick skin. (I'm also 49 years old and a lot has changed.)
"Women have to have thick skin" is just nonsense to not have to type "The women are harassed relentlessly". It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse. Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be like the military, including the military.
Can confirm true from experience. To be fair, the military (USMC experience only) is structured to intentionally harass all members below certain ranks continuously, with the idea being that it keeps them sharp and willing to follow orders that put them or others directly in harm's way. Sexual harassment was punished severely, but at the lowest levels possible, and wasn't often reported.
So, not severely, then?
Probably could have phrased it better. The military culture is very different than civilian culture, jokes and turns of phrase that would be completely unacceptable in the civilian world are common, and the tolerance for them is higher. It's very much like the difference between working an office job, and going out to a seedy bar; different culture, different expectations and rules.
But as for what I said, there was a lot of borderline sexual harassment (and much of it that I witnessed not involving females at all) that went unreported. But when something was reported, it stayed at lower levels most times, and involved squad and platoon level justice, which is very, very severe. Like more severe than is allowed under the UCMJ.
> A survey for the Department of Defense conducted in 2015 found that in the past year 52% of active service members who reported sexual assault had experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments.[5] In addition to retaliation against soldiers remaining in active service, many former service members who reported sexual assaults were forced to leave after being discharged. Reasons for discharge included having a "personality disorder" or engaging in misconduct related to the sexual assault such as fraternization or (prior to the end of don't ask, don't tell) homosexuality, even if the homosexual conduct was non-consensual.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S...
I would say that the punishment seeming severe is mostly a display.
Justice under the UCMJ is similar to how a grand jury operates, where the highest ranking officers will hear a case with evidence, and make decisions about guilt and punishment. Platoon level punishment is much more freeform, and tends to ignore those rules about type and duration of punishment; much more corporal in nature.
Which is also a false translation (and thus a strawman) of what I said. The vast majority were treated quite damn well.
> It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse.
I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't know how that compares to civilian life, and I'll just toss this out there, I bet this varies A TON by military branch, and I will leave it at that.
> Comparing any sane workplace to the military is a joke. Nobody should want to be like the military, including the military.
You sound like a person who would never make it in the military. I learned a lot of good things in the military: Integrity, diversity, work ethic, respect, adventure, confidence, attention to detail, and what an actual 8-hour shift felt like (which I would never see again; most work for corps done since has gone over 8 hours/day). I also had an absolute blast after work and on weekends, it was a happy coming-of-age time for me. Perhaps it was due to it being the USAF and not the USMC, but it was positive for me.
I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote.
> I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't know how that compares to civilian life, and I'll just toss this out there, I bet this varies A TON by military branch, and I will leave it at that
If you care to educate yourself, in another post I made in this thread I referenced the actual data on sexual abuse in the military. The dramatic majority goes unreported, and the cases that do get reported face retaliation from superiors. It’s a toxic cesspit.
edit I'll just add them
> Sexual assault in the United States armed forces is an ongoing issue which has received extensive media coverage in the past. A 2012 Pentagon survey found that approximately 26,000 women and men were sexually assaulted that year; of those, only 3,374 cases were reported.[1] In 2013, a new Pentagon report found that 5,061 troops reported cases of assault. Some are optimistic that this increase in reports is indicative of victims "growing more comfortable in the system".[2] Of the reported cases, only 484 cases went to trial; 376 resulted in convictions.[3] Another investigation found that one in five women in the United States Air Force who were sexually assaulted by service members reported it, for one in 15 men.[4]
20% of women reported.
> A survey for the Department of Defense conducted in 2015 found that in the past year 52% of active service members who reported sexual assault had experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments.[5] In addition to retaliation against soldiers remaining in active service, many former service members who reported sexual assaults were forced to leave after being discharged. Reasons for discharge included having a "personality disorder" or engaging in misconduct related to the sexual assault such as fraternization or (prior to the end of don't ask, don't tell) homosexuality, even if the homosexual conduct was non-consensual.[6]
52% of active service members who reported experienced retaliation. 52%. Getting discharged for homosexuality as a result of _non consensual_ homosexual contact. Tell me again about all that integrity and respect in the military.
> You sound like a person who would never make it in the military.
I don’t care, truly at all, if you think I’d make it in the military. I criticized an obviously disgusting group (that you’re a part of), and you’re making a judgement of my character out of adversarialism.
And then misparaphrased it with a crystal clear bias.
> I criticized an obviously disgusting group (that you’re a part of) and you’re making a judgement of my character out of adversarialism.
Ah yes. Adversarialism, after you make a blanket statement like that is totally surprising, lol.
The fact is that the chance of sexual assault in the military is low, and reporting of it is improving, and the exact number of incidents cannot be known, only speculated on. But apparently, if 2% of Muslims become suicide bombers, all Muslims are bad, according to you; and if most rapists are men, then all men are assholes, according to your reasoning; unfortunately that is what I'll generously call "illogic"; you can speak to countless military members who had good experiences, but if a few women (and a handful of men) got fucked over, then I guess the whole system is fucked, eh?
Good luck applying that to society at large (which, by the way, is IMPROVING along with the military).
Making approval depend on perfection (instead of consistent improvement) is the enemy of good, once again
Skips the whole post.
> The fact is that the chance of sexual assault in the military is low
Where did you get the "low" figure from? I wouldn't call it low at all. I would call it insanely high.
> But apparently, if 2% of Muslims become suicide bombers, all Muslims are bad,
You're saying a lot of very ridiculous things. If an institution condones sexual abuse, it is fair to point it out.
> Good luck applying that to society at large (which, by the way, is IMPROVING along with the military).
I guess it all depends on how you look at it (meaning, if you choose to throw your hands up and say "it's going great!" without actually paying attention).
> Making approval depend on perfection (instead of consistent improvement) is the enemy of good, once again
Who brought up perfection? I'm saying it's an absolute shitshow, for which there is data to corroborate. You're saying "no it's improving", based on legitimately 0 data at all.
The problem is that there may not in fact be anything "good-natured" about it - on both sides - yet the culture forces the recipient to act like it is or they will be punished.
In other words: the only way in which that kind of thing is not toxic is when a recipient can at any time say "that's not funny, stop it!", and the reaction will be a sincere apology and an actual stopping.
Now how often is that actually the case?
Are you saying my entire generation grew up in toxicity?
I mean... It's entirely possible, even if it seemed more innocent at the time.
Heck, my significant other and I rib each other plenty. We know each others' strengths and weaknesses. It is arguable that being fine with some ribbing is proof of comfortableness with oneself and a lack of insecurity.
But, yes, people like you exist. I once teased a former boss for his fear of puppies (yes, puppies. Not just "dogs"... Puppies) by playing a prank where some puppies barked from behind his desk. He jumped. It did not fly very well. Actually, in hindsight, perhaps don't tease your boss, even if you think you're on good terms with them...
As long as everyone is in on the joke, it's fine. I've never heard of a situation where all parties agreed something was a good natured joke and it was still labelled sexual harassment. In virtually every case the "I was just ribbing" is conveyed after the fact in the same tone of voice as "It's just a prank bro" - even if it was genuinely innocent on the harasser's part, it obviously wasn't apparent to others, and that "if" is often questionable.
A really simple rule to follow is "if you don't know how someone will react otherwise, treat them politely with kindness and respect." This rule works in 100% of situations and costs nothing to follow. No one has ever or will ever say "man I wish the first time I talked to that guy he teased me about my physical appearance, what a jerk for denying me that taste of his quick witted humor."
I was ribbed a lot too, but obviously not sexually. And I still really could have done without it.
noun: ribbing
1.
a riblike structure or pattern, especially a band of knitting in rib.
"a fleecy sweatshirt with ribbing at neck, cuffs, and hem"
2.
informal
good-natured teasing.
"he took a good deal of ribbing with the utmost good humor"
let's see... anatomical (I got called "HEED" because my hat size was larger than anyone else's there (it's a reference to So I Married An Axe Murderer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OCjvbV2Z4))... sexual (your manliness was often called into question, usually humorously), combative (sometimes your reputation was called into question)... There are probably more categories of teasing I saw
OK so, since this mentality absolutely and wantonly pervades "male culture", the real problem is male toxicity to other males which spills over towards women?