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Comment by DSingularity | Hacker News Reader

You act like East Jerusalem is the only place where Israelis are colonizing Palestinian lands. It is common for the Israeli army to show up to some nice land, declare the land a military zone, proceed to kill and evict Palestinians, and then begin construction of a new settlement for new settlers.

But why are we surprised by this? This has been going on since before Israel when terrorist groups like the Haganah and the Levi would terrorize Palestinians to force them to flee. Of course this policy continues because the leaders of these groups later became prime ministers, presidents, and generals.

Israel is a presently criminal state (settler colonialism is a crime) with a criminal and bloody history. We aren’t ostracizing it — we are pointing out the facts and demanding justice.

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> This has been going on since before Israel when terrorist groups like the Haganah and the Levi would terrorize Palestinians to force them to flee.

One of the differences between me and you is that I admit Israelis have faults.

What you say is of course to some degree right.

But presenting it this way without mentioning all the Arab terrorist groups, how the Arabs sided with the nazis etc makes it a huge lie anyway because it makes people think it is one sided.

It isn't.

And media is constantly fueling the same lie.

Arabs sided with the Nazis? You really don’t mind giving history a nice stretch so long as it fits your narrative.

Best example here is the grand mufti of jerusalem. https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/

Like I said, it’s really quite a stretch to conclude that “Arabs sided with the Nazis” because of the arguably inconsequential positions of one individual — from the small Palestinian subset of the middle-eastern Arab population. Mind you these meetings occurred at the tail end of the war to discuss the forced migration of European Jews to Palestine.

Anyhow, what makes this feel like such a low misrepresentation are the historical facts that Arabs were taking in the Jewish victims and refugees that the Nazis were forcing out of Germany while the Europeans and Americans were refusing them.

> Arabs were taking in the Jewish victims and refugees that the Nazis were forcing out of Germany while the Europeans and Americans were refusing them.

Good point. In all fairness you do have some good points and if you stick to them I say you have a better story.

See the other answer here, then stop to reconsider on how many other accounts you are simultaneously mistaken && accusing others at the same time.

Then we can soon start discussing the real problems.

But I am fully aware that Israel has some serious problems so this always starts with me and others shattering the illusion that media and others have created over the last 40 years that this is one sided and that a simple good solution exists.

I wish Arabs living in Palestine and everywhere else all well and I can even kind of understand them.

My biggest problem is well meaning but uninformed journalists and forum participants who keep fueling this from the sidelines - and I wish you well as well.

I am sorry but you are really quite off. Answer me this, how you would feel if you were an Arab living in Palestine? How would you feel if you had to live in an apartheid system where another person can kill your family or steal your property with more-or-less impunity just because you are an Arab? Now tell me how would you react when you read that Israel precision-bombed an entire family [1] in response to “Hamas rockets from nearby”. Stop dancing around the real problems. Widespread racism. Apartheid policies. Settler colonialism. Systemic injustice. Disproportionate responses. Tell me your solutions to these problems.

I think you assume a lot when you say that people post “from the sidelines”. I would say that given the huge number of Palestinian victims some the people who post on the forums have probably suffered a loss of family/property/livelihood because of the Israelis.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2021/05/23/999563043/gaza-residents-acce...

> how you would feel if you were an Arab living in Palestine?

Terrible. Either I'd feel terrible because I was oppressed by the Israelis or less likely I guess because I realized I was oppressed by Hamas and Iran.

Again: I see both sides. If everyone here where overwhelmingly denying Israel ever did anything wrong I could play another role.

That never happens though so I am relegated to always inform people about basic pro Israel facts.

I’m not sure I understand your “less likely” remark. Are you conceding that Israel is doing most of the oppressing of Palestinians? Or do you mean that you wouldn’t feel terrible about Israeli land-theft/killing/jailing/apartheid because of Iran and Hamas?

While we are on this topic: how is this a “both sides” issue? Let’s keep it simple and not try to compare Israel oppression of gazans to the Hamas/Iran oppression. Please explain to us how does Hamas and Iran oppress West Bank Palestinians?

> I’m not sure I understand your “less likely” remark. Are you conceding that Israel is doing most of the oppressing of Palestinians?

I mean Hamas has a pretty strong grip over what gets said and written in Gaza.

> Please explain to us how does Hamas and Iran oppress West Bank Palestinians?

Torture, disappearances, embezzlement of aid, using civilians as shields. Iran comes in as supporters.

Yes, in some way this is not a both sides issue. One side is almost a normal democracy, the other is run by a cleptocratic regime that refuses to hold elections.

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