Are you happy? Self-reported well being doesn’t match with external observation
psypost.org
psypost.org
As in most discussions, any confusion devolves to the meaning of words. Most older adults define “happiness” as a purely subjective term…it has no objective meaning. Status, monetary wealth, attractiveness…by the very definition of these terms, these can have objective measures that external observers can meaningfully comment on. Happiness, as I and others define the term, cannot.
“Self-reported social status doesn’t jibe with external observers’ opinions” suggests self-delusion. “Self-reported levels of happiness doesn’t jibe with external observers’ opinions” suggests an problem with the external observers themselves, or with the thesis that external observers can have any meaningful opinion at all.
“Happiness comes from within” is a core element of every major religion and most secular life philosophies across all cultures on Earth for thousands of years. Conversely, depending upon external sources in people or things for personal happiness inevitably leads to sadness/madness. This is a very old saw and you can investigate the tens of thousands of books, movies, scrolls, tablets, etc. on the thesis to get further insight.
“You aren’t as happy as you think/report” is as silly as “this music is better than it sounds”. Talk to the avant-garde music movement in the mid/late 20th Century and see where that thesis led them.
This seems to be a hobby horse for you personally, as noted by the attempt to provide additional support on a past thread for this thesis. The champions of the thesis that “Happiness comes from without, not within” tend to be marketers and salespeople of products, ideas, ideologies, etc. who need to generate discomfort with the status quo in others to make a buck, found an abusive corrupt empire, start a cult, etc. for themselves. So what are you selling?
Thesis here, rather than that being authentically true, rationalization is the actual universal across human cultures, in the same sense how belief in some sort of divinity is omnipresent even if it's not necessarily authentic and isn't reflected in behaviour at all.
The notion that happiness comes from within is comforting because it implies that happiness is always within reach. It's harder to admit that happiness is say, a function of at least a reasonable level of material well-being and intact social structure and relationships, but this is actually what you observe if you look at communities. It's hard to admit because it means that happiness is 1. fundamentally social, not individual, 2. out of your control to some extent.
People not being as happy as they report is the most self-evident thing on earth. I've lied about how happy I am countless of times, as has just about everyone I know. What do you think the 'American smile' is for? The US has built a culture around this stuff
About this:
“You aren’t as happy as you think/report” is as silly
I don't know why anyone would write like this. Who are you trying to convince?
There is an incredibly rich literature about people's ability to lie to themselves. Here is a starter course:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201508...
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/selfdeception/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception
Unhappy people often convince themselves that they are happy. This is a well-studied subject. If these unhappy people are lucky, they have friends, and the friends try to intervene, to get the person the help they need, or perhaps, to simply confront them with reality.
We often have an easier time understanding others more than we understand ourselves. Again, there is a rich literature on this. Spend 5 seconds on Google researching self-deception and you'll understand how well studied this is.
About this:
“Happiness comes from within” is a core element of every major religion and most secular life philosophies across all cultures on Earth for thousands of years.
Wow. You might want to re-read that in a year and see if it still sounds as intelligent as you thought it did. You might eventually feel that you've exaggerated the strength of your argument.
Stated simply: people do often understand one another. Humans engage in conversation with other humans, and by this process we learn about each other. And over the years we build up a complex "theory of the mind" so as to better estimate what is going on in someone else's head. We can generally tell when someone else is miserable. And if the miserable person says they are happy, we can take note of the discrepancy. If you don't want to read a few articles on this topic, you can simply refer to your own personal experience. Surely at some point you've had a friend who seemed depressed, and you realized they were depressed without being explicitly told?
About this:
The champions of the thesis that “Happiness comes from without, not within” tend to be marketers and salespeople of products, ideas, ideologies, etc. who need to generate discomfort with the status quo in others to make a buck
I suspect that you are smart enough to realize that if you had a strong argument you would not have to resort to putting words in my mouth.
One of us has an agenda. The other one is linking to articles that will be educational if the good people of Hacker News decide to read them.