My Fanless OpenBSD Desktop | Hacker News Reader

My Fanless OpenBSD Desktop

jcs.org

273 pointsrodrigo975141 comments

I totally understand the appeal of a totally silent desktop, been there :-) Making it fanless sounds like the obvious way but it gets quite expensive very soon (I just checked and just the DB4 seems to cost >200€ here in Europe).

I secretly keep on wishing to build a true fanless system, but I have personally opted for something in between. A good quality PSU (fanless or with a fan only active after certain threshold), SSD drives (mechanical ones are terrible offenders about noise), a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price. If you need to add a discrete GPU to the equation you can get a not too power hungry one with decent fan regulation (they can work fanless under low workloads).

While not fanless and not a truly 0dB system, any potential noise is covered by any background noise, even in quiet places, your own keyboard typing or the audio from your gaming session if you are stressing your GPU.

This. I have a Ryzen 7 3700X-based machine [1] with the factory CPU cooler, an SSD, and a quiet system fan. When idle, it's inaudible even with the exhaust fan facing you. When I'm compiling, the fan speeds up but you can only hear a quiet ticking. Any quieter would have had no value for me.

[1] https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23

> a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price

I’ve followed fanless PC cases for years, but I always arrive at the same conclusion: Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so good that it’s not hard to build an effectively silent PC that uses fans for cooling.

My GPU and PSU don’t even spin up their fans at all unless I’m playing a video game, at which point I’m wearing headphones anyway. A large CPU heatsink allows for slow spinning fans that are so quiet I can’t tell if they’re spinning at all without looking at them. The case itself is lined with acoustic damping material to attenuate noise even further.

The loudest part of my recent builds hasn’t been the fans. It’s the noise made by the electromagnetic coils in the PSU. I had to swap power supplies to find an even quieter one, even though the fan wasn’t spinning.

I could see how a truly fanless PC could have used (recording studio or maybe a dusty environment where airflow isn’t an option) but for most of us it’s not hard to build an effectively silent case with good fan and component selection.

This is my experience too. Unless there's some sort of heavy workload going on you can have an "inaudible" computer fairly easily.

Something I've seen people fall for is the idea that water-cooled computers will be more quiet but that's definitely not the case. You'll struggle to find a water pump that is quieter than a decently air cooled PC (when not under heavy load.)

> Unless there's some sort of heavy workload going on you can have an "inaudible" computer fairly easily.

The catch with these fanless setups is that they're mostly limited to low-TDP CPUs anyway. You can't use the most powerful CPUs with a passive heatsink unless you add fans to help when the workload peaks, which starts to defeat the purpose.

> Something I've seen people fall for is the idea that water-cooled computers will be more quiet but that's definitely not the case.

Water-cooled can be quieter for certain edge cases like cooling the CPU and GPU. You have to work hard to keep the pump quiet, though. I've tried several of the popular pumps (D5, DDC) with various PWM strategies, but they're never entirely silent.

For CPU-only workloads, air cooling with a big heatsink is the way to go. A lot of people are surprised when they look at benchmark charts and see the best heatsinks outperforming most water coolers on the market.

> This is my experience too. Unless there's some sort of heavy workload going on you can have an "inaudible" computer fairly easily.

I agree and it doesn't even need to be a custom built computer. Any laptop with 15W TDP CPU with a power saver governor would be completely silent for most day-to-day task.

Since they are usually entry level the cost saved can be invested in buying nVME storage, RAM and what not. Many have USB 3.1 with display port and if connected to a monitor you have easy access to the more ports than a >$1000 laptop.

> Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so good that it’s not hard to build an effectively silent PC that uses fans for cooling.

This is a lie. Or we have entirely different definitions for what silent means.

It’s pretty hard. I just did this with a pretty good budget. It’s taken a number of parts swaps to get to a truly silent PC.

Amongst the issues are:

- Lack of hardware/OS optimization. Coming from the Mac world, the coupling between hardware and software is much more loose. The driver quality is quite a bit more poor.

- Product variances. Eg. I had two fans of the same model that had different sound profiles.

> This is a lie. Or we have entirely different definitions for what silent means.

Maybe lead with the second sentence and drop the first? "This is a lie" is a pretty strong reaction to what you immediately acknowledge is likely just a difference in preference.

You're right (and it's too late to edit) but I'm just tired of the nonsensical "it just works" claims that keep on being parroted by people.

I researched silent PCs heavily before buying any parts and bought the best I could with that mission in mind only to find out that there's a bunch of gotchas and variations in QA -- even amongst the finest PC components. So I ended up spending even more money on more components and doing a bunch of A/B testing. I got to that silent PC goal, but with a lot of pain.

Another common one I see is "Switch to a Linux desktop. You can play all your favorite games!" The reality there being, yeah sure you can more or less play them as long as its not multi-player.

I am not a recording engineer (though my father was) but I suspect the more pragmatic approach to a quiet PC for your recording studio is to just put it in the next room and drill some holes through the wall for the cables.

True. Less radical thing I've done is placing the main unit next to heavy furniture in some distance from the actual desk, so it is mostly obscured for vision and sound waves it seems. With cabling and USB hubs (including those in the monitors) it remains pretty convenient. I'm sure you can go even further with standard sound dampening tricks if you care.

> I just checked and just the DB4 seems to cost >200€ here in Europe

True, but you would likely spend about 100€-150€ for a decent case + CPU cooler (e.g. noctua) anyway. If you consider that, then the DB4 is actually not that expensive.

Fair point

Depends what you want to do with it.

I have a 0dB system:

https://www.amazon.com/Kingdel-Powerful-Desktop-Computer-Ind...

Works fine as my primary linux server.

Each to their own. I have a 6 disk HDD RAID server in my sleeping room, because I find the random read and write sounds relaxing at night. It's not disturbing either, as the sounds are muzzled by a noise dampening case.

Using rubber grommets for all my mounts has made my HDD sounds so much quieter. An absolute world of difference.

What I would recommend if going for a quiet case with fans, look at 140mm low rpm fans. Disregard all midtower atx cases designed for use of 120mm fans.

You can safely use a fairly large passive cpu heatsink if with a 65W tdp cpu. Human annoyance noise from small DC fans increases as they get smaller (40/60mm size fans are perfect examples). A slow 140mm size fan can move quite a lot of air and very quietly.

There is no need to spend extra for 140. A quality 120 is negligibly higher CFM then a quality 140 at the same RPM.

It used to be that bigger is better, but there are diminishing returns, and manufacturers have started making quiet fans in all sizes

[Edit]

To be clear, if the case you like happens to have 140mm fan bays, that's fine, but no need to specifically look for that.

> There is no need to spend extra for 140. A quality 120 is negligibly higher CFM then a quality 140 at the same RPM.

Where do you get these numbers from?

Take Noctua fans for example, which are arguably some of the best on the market. A 140mm NF-A14 PWM [1] does have a throughput of 140.2 m³/h at 1,500 RPM, while a 120mm NF-A12x25 PWM [2]does only have a throughput of 84.5 m³/h at 1,700 RPM. And that even with the NF-A12x25 PWM being a newer generation fan than the NF-A14 PWM!

[1]: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm/specification

[2]: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12x25-pwm/specificatio...

Thanks for that, I'm apparently just wrong. I should point out that the 140mm doesn't get the extra airflow for free, as it's about 2dB louder. The lower frequency makes up for that though, and you will probably see more than a 2dB rise in noise for adding a second 120mm fan so it is still a net win at any given CFM.

Some review says that A12x25 + 14cm adapter is superior than A14 for silent setup. I can confirm that since I have both A12x25 and A14. A12x25 is impressive but a bit disappointed for A14's bass noise. dBA isn't a perfect metric how human feel the sound annoying

I agree, but I'm confident Noctua will tackle that with the next iteration of their 140mm fans which is currently scheduled to be released in Q1 2022 [1].

[1]: https://noctua.at/en/product-roadmap

A quality 120 is louder and has a higher pitched noise than a quality 140.

The pitch is largely related to the speed at which the fan is rotating. Louder is just not true, looking at the Noctua examples that your sibling comment posted, for the 140 and 120 in the same marketing range, the 140 is louder.

I would bet you that if you operated both fans in an perfectly empty, very quiet room with a human standing next to them, one at a time, the human-perceived level of noise annoyance from the 140 would be much less due to its lower pitch.

Additionally if you use a variable fan controller to reduce the rpm on the 140 to a point where its cfm or cubic meters/hour of airflow is exactly equal to the 120, or 5-10% greater than the 120 at its default rpm, not only will its pitch be lower, but its objectively measured loudness on a decibel meter will also be less.

I'm really happy with my integrated water cooling for my desktop, the large fan barely has to run and the water pump is almost inaudible except for the occasional gurgling noise. Its not the same sound as a whining small CPU cooling fan so much less annoying. The PSU fan also doesn't have to run much unless you really load the system. Been working well for almost 10 years.

I used to build my own desktops when I was younger, but my most recent desktops have all been Intel NUCs, mostly due to valuing time/space/noise over raw price/performance (and due my rapidly declining gaming needs).

One feature that I've really grown to love that I don't remember ever seeing with custom machines is the ability to fully customize the fan-curve, including the ability to completely turn off the fan below certain temperatures.

This makes it as good as a truly silent build for most day to day use, but with effective cooling available for intensive tasks for when I need the extra power.

Maybe these days there are motherboards that allow you to configure the fan curve this way as well? I personally think this kind of configuration gives the best of both worlds.

Since you asked. Most of the motherboards I've worked with recently let you set a custom fan curve with the option to turn the fan off completely. You can also adjust which temperature sensor the fan curve is based on. This can be controlled for each fan connected to the motherboard.

100% this. I have a system with a fanless PSU from Seasonic, 3 Noctua case fans and a Noctua CPU heatsink/CPU fan. I couldn't be happier with it. It is completely drowned out by any background noise (for example, the sound of typing, the hum of the AC, etc) and gives off a very, very faint whooshing sound when the house is truly silent. Personally I like the sound, it's the sound of high-end Austrian engineering working perfectly. I highly recommend Noctua fans.

I find myself more sensitive to unnecessary noise as I get older but "fanless" seems to be the Designers Dream while a fan is practical in terms of build cost and utility.

A fan CAN spin up and provide a LOT of cooling if needed. And stay still otherwise. An absence of fan provides no options.

I get a fan for my computer case. But lament service and retail centres with with echoing brick walls, polished concrete floors and hard surface ceilings. It isn't relaxing ambience, it is echoing noise...

It depends on what you need from the PC. There's a huge market of fanless mini PCs, which are taking generic laptop motherboards + CPUs (likely bulk orders of surplus from white-label ODMs) and putting them in thick aluminum enclosures. The CPU is mounted such that it directly contacts the case. For the <30W power output of these components, cooling is handled completely passively.

Depending on your workload, these can be great value for money (especially with CPUs that are a few generations old). If you need to do heavy compute, these won't fit your needs. For most desktop (as opposed to workstation) use cases, these are great.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=S...

I don’t understand this part of the write up, “ I’ve always chosen smaller (<= 14”) laptop screens since I find too much horizontal space disorienting.”

I very much understand getting distracted with too much screen space, but I wonder what he means about getting disoriented?

I like the minimalist setup, but for me this setup would be an ergonomic disaster with the monitor that low.

I find 13 inch laptop screen to be the best. I can’t understand all the people plugging 2 huge monitors to their laptop.

I believe the limited view and interactivity offered by our small 2D screens at have a profound impact on our industry deliverables.

I like a small notebook but I also use a large translucent sheet for plans and sketches or a giant blackboard for collaboration.

I have a wide screen. On one side, the app I'm working on reloads itself as I'm working on it, middle is the code, right is docs.

On a second virtual desktop I have chat, email and todos.

Works perfect for me.

2 monitors attached to my laptop let’s me keep main teams window, active call window, obsidian/notes, and a full display for whatever I am working on/discussing/sharing all open simultaneously. Constantly alt-tabbing between a call window and notes is a chore.

Personally I prefer 15.6" 1920x1080 for laptops. A lot of real estate and can keep it at 100% scaling.

That part of the write up means that he is still young.

The older you get, the more you appreciate larger monitors, which allow you to continue working without needing glasses and without visual fatigue.

I don't know why someone downvoted that. It has absolutely been my experience as I've aged. That, I also greatly appreciate having two monitors on my system.

One of my favourite things in macOS is how well it handles scaling on 4k displays. I find windows / Linux unusable for any duration >15 minutes when I don’t have glasses on. Things are either not scaled/tiny, or Fischer price large and layouts break everywhere.

This hasn't really been a problem on Windows for 99% of the applications for years now.

Linux either, afaik. Using a 7" 1080p tablet with a necessary 125% scale that seems to work fine.

You can solve this problem really simply by just getting monitors that are actually large enough to use all the pixels and don't use scaling

What's the point of 4K if you don't use all the pixels?

Full disclosure my eyesight is terrible so maybe the rest of you can tell a difference between a high res screen that's scaled and a low res unscaled screen at the same apparent resolution.. but I can't

Scaling doesn’t waste the pixels; they just get used for smoother edges rather than smaller (more) content.

Yeah seriously, I for one am gonna have to throw in my hat for scaling. Big pixel isn’t paying me off, I can just tell an absurd discrepancy in the realism of (lol, cartoonish in reality) graphical menus and fonts. Granted you can go too far

Doesn't Mac OS only do integer scaling? Is scaling to 250% or 300% an option? Day-to-day use I keep my Windows 13" laptop with a 3.5K screen at 300% scaling (nice and big), but for certain situations I will bump it down to 250% or 225% when I feel like I need more "space".

Scaling is 1x, 1.5x and 2x, but I believe you can choose intermediary resolutions if you prefer.

This old fart agrees heartily. I bought an M1 iMac because I am an older fanboi (but a fanboi no less) and I really miss the old 27” 5K iMac display… I will probably ditch it for a larger iMac when that comes out.

I am 37 so not old but also not young :) For me I find the opposite. I prefer a high quality and high resolution but smaller monitor.

By smaller I mean sub-30" which isn't small by any means but it is smaller than what I see many people use these days. Most people I know have 32" or larger monitors and that is just way too big for me. I currently use a 27" 4K monitor and even that I find a little too big but until I can find a 3:2 or 16:10 ~25" monitor I am not bothered enough to replace it.

Over the years I have realised I am most productive with a tiled window layout. Often side by side or in a 2x2 grid layout. I then make use of virtual desktops.

I find too much "desktop real estate" frustrating and overwhelming. I get "lost" looking for what I want in a mess of windows so much prefer to have what I am working on side by side. Floating windows are only for short lived windows such as print or settings dialogs and not long term items on my desktop.

I prefer to use integer scaling so 4K @ 2x gives me a lovely 1080p "look" which is fine (not perfect on a 27" but very close). Providing I can integer scale I will always buy the best monitor I can and run it scaled to give me this ~1080p UI control size. I just love how crisp text is on a HiDPI screen. Using my wifes 24" 1080p monitor from work is horrible to my eyes now. I guess I have officially been spoilt by high quality screens :)

Wait until you're 50.

Ha maybe :)

I started wearing glasses about ten years ago. Probably should have started a year or two earlier tbh.

For me providing the UI controls are the right size I’m quite happy with limited screen space though. I just find it easier to concentrate on a single task which often means just one or two windows without moving things around.

I find “context switching” my brain fatiguing and it slows me down leading to mistakes and I lose “flow state”.

Much like a cluttered desk I find a cluttered screen difficult to work with. Command+tabbing to find the right window is annoying to me now. I prefer to configure my environment so that I always know my browser is on desktop 2. My editor one desktop 1 etc. I can switch to it in a split second without animations or having to search for it.

Obviously everyone is different though. I see people work with a dozen windows on a single desktop but that just doesn’t work for me.

Maybe 'set in his ways', because used to laptops of that size and pixel density, not wanting to change that. And clueless about ergonomics, because favouring the same way to look downward at the display which leads to hunchback, if you don't take care.

I don't get motion, sea, or VR sick, but if you put a 16:9 27" 144Hz TN panel in front of me, I'll start yawning and drooling in a matter of minutes. If I ignore that, I'll get too nauseous to work until I lay down for bit or take a long walk outside.

The cause seems to be twofold. At a reasonable viewing distance, the strain caused by having to constantly focus my eyes differently between the corners and the center begins to give me a raging headache. This isn't true for <22" or >34" panels, though, so it's a function of my lens plasticity.

The second factor is related to the panel technology. Scrolling on TN panels makes me feel the same as I do when I watch certain Hulu shows and poorly shot 3D films. Those incorporate subtle DOF that causes eye strain and discomfort on subjects in a scene your brain thinks you should be able to focus on (like trying to read the artistically blurred signage on a door in Avatar 3D). Resisting it makes me almost immediately sick to my stomach. With TN panels, knowing that I should be able to focus on the content as it scrolls yet just barely not being able to read it due to blur and poor panel characteristics (eg- backlight) is highly nauseating.

I've used HFR displays with IPS/(M)VA panels for almost a decade with no issue. At work I use a 13" MBP, and at home I use a 39" 4K 120Hz VA panel. I'm actually stuck right now deciding between 13" models of MB Air and Chromebooks because I know deep down I really just want something with a 4:3 or 5:4 display, which would either mean an iPad Pro or modded ThinkPad.

> This isn't true for <22" or >34" panels, though, so it's a function of my lens plasticity.

I understand smaller displays, but why isn't the issue present on bigger displays?

My guess would be that I place larger displays far enough away that my eyes aren't constantly refocusing.

A better answer may be that I also benefit from displays below a certain proportion of my field of view. I try to work in open areas where I can relax my eyes periodically by looking out of windows, and being able to see around the screen is important for that.

With a small screen you just move your eyes, with a big screen you need to move your head. I guess it could be disorienting

I love the casualness of this:

>Since the LG UltraFine exposes a USB HID device to control its brightness, I wrote a driver to attach to it and expose the brightness adjustment through wsconsctl display.brightness.

Worth noting that many of the NUC style minipcs have aftermarket fanless solutions available - google Akasa case for example.

Apparently the ryzens take a sizable hit from single stick of mem but haven't tested it myself.

At least I guess writing a control code for my dell 24 inches under mac is much difficult cf to *nix.

Single channel of RAM (you can put two sticks into one channel and leave the second one unused, which is really stupid but has been found on prebuilt desktops LOL) is always bad for performance, especially for onboard GPU.

This reminded me of experiments with a case-less-fan-full setup. Not a cpu fan but a full-fledged table fan.

As a cash-strapped recently exed-student of that time I had assembled a desktop based on AMD K6 CPU one summer. They were significantly cheaper than the Intel peers of that time.

I had two favorite tests to check a running system (i) compile the kernel and (ii) run GNU Chess against each other.

To my sinking disappointed both crashed repeatedly on this assembly, I had sunk quite a bit of my savings into this. Those days you had to take a lot of care choosing your hardware if you wanted to run Linux.

Linux was largely an unknown entity in India at that time. We used to get Linux distributions (usually Redhat, Debian or Mandrake) on CDs that came with a magazine called PCQuest. Many thanks to Atul Chitnis (RIP) for popularizing an alternative path to a computer experience. Anything other than Windows was unimaginable in India at that time.

Guessing it could be an overheating problem, I removed the case and directed a table fan at it - Problem solved! I had it run kernel compilation on a loop all through the day, no failures.

Later I reapplied the thermal paste on the cpu/heatsink fixture (it had come as an assembly when I had purchased it). After that I could compile the kernel -- case closed.

Came away with the realization that AMD chips though cheaper, they tend to run hotter. This turned out to be good learning too. Running 2 Athlon based desktops with their fans directed at me gave me enough heating in the winter as a grad student.

Fun days.

If you're into fully fanless PCs and don't mind paying a premium, Monster Labo are the only ones to my knowledge selling cases capable of dissipating the 300W+ that a full gaming desktop will generate: https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop

Those look really attractive, too. I was expecting the typical, garish gaming rig.

> The stupid RGB LEDs can be disabled in the BIOS/firmware menu by setting “AURA” to “Stealth Mode”, and I unplugged the two 1” fans on the I/O board to keep everything silent. I also had to set the “CPU Fan Speed” in the “Monitor” section to “Ignore”, or else it would indicate a fan error at every boot since I had none plugged in.

I can't tell looking at the motherboard he linked whether it has a fan there and which 1 inch fan he is talking about.

However I have a ATX board that is very similar and the little fan is there to cool the northbridge and it *should* be running. Northbridge's on these chipsets get very hot from what I understand.

An X570 board is indeed not a good choice for a build like this, because the I/O options offered by the chipset are not actually used. This particular one seems to have one fan for the VRMs, which is likely not needed in his use, while the NB will actually need that fan (with the stock cooler, if you replace the usually not very good OEM designs you can cool X570 passively).

A B450 or B550 board would have been a better idea and much cheaper to boot. It would also significantly reduce power usage, as just the X570 chipset alone needs something like 8-9 W (at idle) more than the B450 chipset.

Indeed, I bought a b550 board specifically because it doesn't require a chipset fan that's tiny, inefficient, and much better at making noise/vibration than it is at moving air. Then tend to be rather unreliable as well.

There is a newer x570s motherboards out now, if you need the highest end boards and don't want the extra fan.

Thanks for pointing that out - I've been nosing around as I consider what I want to build next, and I hadn't realized the X570s tend to need chipset fans. That's a deal-killer for me. Either it's going to be noisy as all get-out, or it's going to be some cheap part that fails prematurely, assuming it isn't both. I definitely prefer big and slow for fans.

The new crop of X570 boards, labeled X570S or something, do not have a chipset fan. (Also on the original ones, the fans might've had full silent modes where they only spin up when pushing big PCIe bandwidth over the chipset?)

There’s a few like the X570 Dark Hero which also don’t have a chipset fan but don’t use the X570S label.

I suspect he either put a big passive heatsink on it, or attached it to the case's heatsink.

Did some research on the case. Fairly in-depth review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoRp3SI2UKM

I suspect he won't run into the thermal issues experienced here unless he is doing something graphically intensive.

That monitor position, simulating the placement on a laptop, goes against any basic ergonomy guidelines.

The case looks great!

I personally enjoy the current trend of putting RGB leds on everything, including internal components. It will probably not age well, but I think it's fun and some funky lighting can improve a lot the appearance of a dull looking computer. But with such a beautiful case, there is no need for RGB lights.

48Hz seems a bit too low. I think high refresh rates improve the user experience even outside gaming. Scrolling code at 144Hz or more feels much nicer than 60Hz, it's easy to notice when you switch between computers. But that may generate a bit too much heat for someone who doesn't want any noise.

Agree on the high refresh rate point. I used to have a 1080p 144 Hz monitor and it transformed online gaming, but was also noticeable on the desktop.

However, I then went 32" 4k and can never go back. 4k is simply amazing, and today you still have to choose: either high Hz or high resolution. You can't (reasonably) have both, and I choose 4k! Looking forward to the day 4k 144Hz becomes reasonable.

If the larger size of 48” isn’t a deal breaker, the LG CX/C1 make amazing desktop displays- 4K120 + OLED response times.

Ehh maybe true like four years ago. I've had a 4K 120Hz 10bit 4:4:4 panel since 2014 for under $1K, and TVs that do 4K 120Hz are cheap today (like 55" for $350).

My display also does 1080_240 and 720_540, which is just silly.

Such high values found on TVs are typically a product of motion interpolation and backlight strobing. They may not be considered "true" refresh rates and be just taken at face value.

The 48hz would ruin the whole build for me. Is that likely to be an Openbsd issue?

I recently went fanless by getting a Ryzen 7 mini pc (ASUS PN-50) and installing the mainboard in a fanless aftermarket case[0]. Works great. The CPU idles around 45C which is actually quite a bit cooler than with the original air cooled ASUS case.

[0] https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.deta...

This review didn't really convince me about the keyboard.

1. Boot into windows to configure it

2. Space bar sometimes sticks

3. Wrist pain because the key height

4. Led lights don't support dimming very well

The keyboard costs $169.99!

Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium), the desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and only a couple cm wider.

In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches. $170 is around average for something respectable.

I've never understood penny pinching something like a keyboard, it's your interface to the computer and you use it every single working day. A 170$ mech keyboard from a good manufacturer will easily last more than 10 years.

That said, I personally don't trust the reliability of Glorious.

> In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches.

My solution to this has been "not getting used to mechanical switches."

Even over 10 years, the cost really doesn't add up, and I have used fairly acceptable membrane/rubber dome keyboards that get the job done fine.

You can get 75% keyboards for much cheaper. Like you can easily get a mechanical one off Amazon for $50. With the Glorious GMMK Pro you are paying for the metal backplane, the ability to hotswap switches and in theory it should support QMK? Maybe? Depending on which chip it got. QMK would allow it to be configured outside Windows just with more effort.

I do like custom mechanical keyboards and I am quite "neutral" about GMMK boards.

1. I read on the product's page they are compatible with QMK firmware, which makes possible to configure the keyboard from Linux (and I guess from OpenBSD). Probably the convenient configuration app it's Windows-only, but it seems we are not limited to it

2. That's weird and should not happen. It may be a defect with the keyboard / stabilizers or it may be a problem with the spacebar key (it's bent, twisted or it has been manufactured with the wrong geometry), but definitely it should be addressed

3. My experience is that a proper chair with arm rests and a table at the right height make a wrist rest unnecessary (and it can be counterproductive from a ergonomics perspective)

4. Nothing to comment about the dimming feature

While nowadays you can find all kinds of prices and qualities regarding mechanical keyboards, $169.99 is really "cheap" for an entry level custom keyboard with these features.

My impression is that the keyboard hobby is one of those things you don't fully get until you are into it, it's a dangerous rabbit hole :-)

I just tried building the keyboard and it actually costs ~$300 including keycaps and switches.

Base $169 is only for the base and MCU I suppose. Quite expensive. Just get a TKL cherry brown from any of the "gaming" brands and it'll serve you just as well. They usually run around ~$110 and include switches, keycaps and cable for the price.

Custom keyboards are expensive. The benefit of the GMMK Pro is you can easily install new switches as it's hotswappable. This lets you have a lot more options for switches than most companies give you. I personally find MX Browns kinda meh.

No, the benefit of the GMMK Pro is supposed to be build quality. There are plenty of cheap hot-swap boards about.

I'm using a Hexgears K705A - it cost me £60, with BOX White switches and cheap double-shot ABS keycaps. That's less than a bare non-pro GMMK. I replaced the keycaps with a pretty expensive set of sculpted PBT's and it still worked out less than a bare GMMK Pro.

And my space bar doesn't stick :P

> Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium), the desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and only a couple cm wider.

A large keyboard (TKL or larger) negatively impacts ergonomics. A standard keyboard has to be offset to the left to make room for the mouse on the right.

If you center the letter keys so your shoulders and wrists are square, then your mouse is too far to reach comfortably.

65% keyboards are the ideal middle ground between ergonomics and productivity. You only lose the numpad and 1 or 2 keys from the nav cluster, and you get perfectly centered letter keys.

Yep, I favor 60% and 65% boards with a discrete numpad to the left for this reason. All the utility of a full size keyboard, but much more ergonomic, and as a bonus if I need some desk space I can set the numpad aside temporarily.

The mechanical keyboard crowd cares about looks and uniqueness over affordability and ergonomics.

It's shocking how nobody makes ortholinear tilted keyboards in the price range of the typical keyboard (20 $/e).

I would be concerned about ditching the X570 chipset fan (with no cooling replacement?). They didn't add the fan for fun. B550 boards are available fanless and have most of the same features.

From reading lots of reviews and what not, the chipset fan on the X570 is really only needed when doing a lot of PCI-e 4.0 stuff; the CPU in question doesn't support 4.0, so it really shouldn't be an issue to disable the fan. Although buying a less capable board is probably a better answer; personally, I built my SFF system on an A520 board, the only down side is very little overclocking/underclocking/voltage tuning support. There is some support for tuning, but you can't use the best utilities, and so I'm just running at stock which works well for me, but a small undervolt might give similar performance with a little less heat.

Is there any desktop machine I could buy off the shelf, in 2021, and OpenBSD would just work on it?

As desktop or server?

The main reason I tend to stick with GNU+Linux is because of its excellent support for hardware accelerated opengl. The article doesn't tell how the performance is under openbsd. I can play 3d games and have multiple live streams of the olympics running simultaneously, without a hitch.

On a router, openbsd is perfect. It has a great firewall and everything is thoroughly documented. Configuration is simple enough and it just works really well.

Good read though.

Likely because the author doesn't care about that and are productivity focused. Besides, OpenBSD uses the same drivers as Linux, ported to the OpenBSD kernel.

https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4e...

Author is OpenBSD developer.

OpenBSD uses MESA. I finished Silent Hill:Shattered Memories just fine under a Celeron+Intel Mobile 4 Series laptop.

-currrent uses MESA 21.1.5.

This looks to me very masochistic, so much pain to setup simple stuff like screen resolution, refresh rate, issues installing operating system.

It didn't seem like any of that was the fault of OpenBSD to me. The monitor may have just been a bad choice. Especially when he had to get that additional expansion card to use it, and still had issues. I hope he finds a way to get back to 60hz someday.

Very nice article. I was also impressed by his stunningly beautiful site/blog design. A joy to read and look at on mobile.

There are motherboards like the AsRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 that support DP-out through the onboard usb-c. Either using a DP-in port with a discrete GPU, or through an integrated GPU. Always check the manual to ensure it works like you expect.

The new Ryzen 5700G is getting retail availability soon, though its hard to say to wait for it - especially with availability as it is.

I would certainly recommend a second stick of ram to run in dual channel mode which doubles the memory bandwidth. This is especially important for the onboard GPU but other CPU workloads as well.

The 5700G is undoubtably better than the 4750G (unless you care about the pro features, I guess), but I don't think it's that big of a difference. CPU is one generation better, and GPU is about the same.

I don't know what the grey market premium is on the 4750G these days though. I got my two 4650G processors last November, and it was only about $20 over suspected MSRP to get them on Aliexpress, but 4750G at that point had fewer vendors and a lot bigger premium. At that time, US based marketplaces bumped the price by another $50+, so I took my chances with Aliexpress (I had to order my chosen SFF heatsinks there anyway, so I had a test run with a lower cost item) and everything worked out fine.

> but I was disappointed at how every non-server motherboard seems to be targeted towards gamers with all kinds of stupid flashing LEDs and aggressive branding.

Yup, it's all gamer chic now. We NEED all those flashy LEDs inside that 4U rackmount case! :)

Really, I don't care one way or the other, though for a server I'd want something with a BMC. More important to me is that the motherboard itself doesn't have any fans. If there's a little bitty fan on the chipset, don't just walk away, run.

Gamer chic or gamer kitch...

you'll be wanting a SpectraLogic Black Pearl.

Motherboards have fan now?

Great writeup. For someone so meticulous it's surprising that Gb/Tb is used where GB/TB is meant. Reading the X1 Nano review seems like that is consistent.

Why not just get an M1 macbook air? Its likely more performant, also has no fan, runs bsd, whats not to like?

You could probably one day replace MacOS with openbsd if you wanted.

He stated multiple times in the article that he runs OpenBSD, which doesn't fully support the M1.

This article made a passing reference to the lack of S3 Sleep on some laptops, so I did some googling to learn that there is something called "Modern Standby". I'm not sure I like the idea of my laptop randomly connecting to the internet and doing background work, after I explicitly told it to sleep.

My work issued laptop is a Lenovo with modern sleep. Basically just means the thing never really sleeps, fans keep going.

It used to be you could trick windows (sadly a work necessity) into using real S3 sleep via UEFI setting, but they broke it in 20-04.

Don't really understand the convoluted USB-C setup. If you're using onboard graphics anyway, can't you get a mobo with onboard USB-C that will route that DP signal without the workaround?

48 Hz ouch, i weep for the eyes.

I have 3 fanless desktops and you can build them quite cheaply if 65w cpus are enough for you. You can get a fanless seasonic power supply for 90 usd and use cpu cooler Artic Alpine 12 for 25 USD - the remaining components including the case can be quite standard

The "problem" of using a regular case for totally fanless setup is these cases are designed with a fan-generated air flow in mind. The cases designed for passive operation, like the DB4 try to generate some airflow by convection to compensate.

A setup like the one you describe can be quite OK (specially with modern hardware), but it may run kind of warm-ish due the lack of proper airflow (and heat kind of shortens life of electronic components in the long run). Worst case scenario, you can always install very low RPM fans to this setup.

For a passively cooled Ryzen APU system, I can recommend the Cirrus7 Incus: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/

Looks beautiful, I love the keyboards. I find something about the sound of a fan to be comforting. Reminds me of home.

Although the fan on my work Macbook Air sounds like an air compressor and I am not a ‘fan’ of it at all :)

Everything about this setup is amazing to me. The desk, the office, the high-dpi screen, the fanless nature: awesome. I wonder though is there any risk of coil whine?

There always is, though with desktops you can hand-pick the PSU and mainboard (and graphics card if using a dedicated one) to not have the whiny kind of inductors. Or you can add ambient noise, or listen to music :)

is there any research that says something like a platinum or gold rated PSU will always or most of the time not have any coil whine? same for high-end or quality capped motherboards? or is it a fundamental thing in all electronics and we just don't hear it over the fans and other ambient noise?

What keyboard is that? Ps love the susuwatari keys

Excerpt from the article:

I’m not big into mechanical keyboards (aside from the one on my Dolch PAC 64) but after seeing LGR’s video about the Glorious GMMK Pro 75% keyboard, I decided to go with that one for my desktop.

Silent and low power are my important parameters. I've had good experience will Dell Optiplex for these two requirements.

Anyone else get secondhand neck strain just looking at the monitor position? Cool setup regardless! Nice website too. Thanks.

The DB4 (I like the black) is a beautiful case.

surprised to see so many people with 'inaudible' ryzen setups, my 3600 runs loud and hot with a noctua nhu9s

I found this a real pleasure to read, as the author explained the why behind almost every decision, and was quite descriptive. Def hope to read more from Joshua.

Nice soldering iron!

Ah, the Streacom DB4... what a piece of art!

For a while I was pondering whether to invest in a completely silent home server using the DB4, but it would have meant that I would need to go all-in with solid-state storage, which would get a bit pricey for a 4 Tb RAID10 array :(

I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their first AMD processor in 2021.

Small 60 Hz monitor, crappy wireless mouse, and a Samsung 980 Pro SSD. But hey, the person was trying to build a non gaming machine. Disappointing article

That said, I totally get what the author was going for. It's that I completely disagree with most choices

Edit: downvote all you want, there's nothing about this build that merits fluff

The part about them scratching their head about csm had me scratching my head too. OpenBSD is wonderful. But at the same time not really tailored to this setup.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the whole point of BSD is to run old hardware [for various reasons]

As far as BSD “reasons” net bsd might be the “run on anything” reason. OpenBSD is more “code quality and security”. For example hyperthrrading is disabled by default. They priority security over speed.

For work, I'd definitely prefer resolution over refresh rate, and 4K120 is still too expensive sadly. Agree on the mouse, non-gaming mice are bad. What's wrong with the 980 Pro?

4k120 is not only expensive, it's plagued by all sorts of issues, not to mention fans.

As for 980pro. It's just an Eco with the Pro branding. Check out 5he reviews. It's a joke

Which reviewers? Anandtech says it's, like, the first really good PCIe gen4 SSD https://www.anandtech.com/show/16087/the-samsung-980-pro-pci...

Well, have fun paying premium for TLC

How is the refresh rate relevant? If it were a CRT, I could somewhat understand because 60 Hz visibly flickers and might give you a headache. But this has never been a concern with LCDs.

> I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their first AMD processor in 2021.

Luckly, nowhere in the article the author was giving anyone advice. He was just documenting his journey to mount his setup and did this beautifully, even if I don't agree with some choices myself.

I believe you completely missed the point of the article, therefore the downvotes (Even if I didnt downvoted you myself).

> I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their first AMD processor in 2021.

Okay, but when I bought the PC I'm using right now Ryzen wasn't even a thing. And the Athlon stuff was hardly good.

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