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Comment by hughrr | Hacker News Reader

Realistically 99% of the corporate and consumer laptops I have been party to are built to order with the right amount of RAM in and never upgraded. Those of us who actually upgrade are an insignificant minority at this point or pulling them out of the ex corp recycling lifecycle.

Another point is stuff that is soldered in is a lot more reliable as a whole. Amazing how many old machines can be resurrected by reseating the RAM.

Really I'm on the fence. I'm sitting here on a 16Gb M1 MBA also.

Now what I really want to see is replaceable USB-C ports. Those have a massive repair and replacement risk over the normal lifetime of a laptop. Lenovo / Dell etc solder them directly to the motherboard. One bad knock and the whole thing goes in the trash. At least Apple stick them on a daughterboard.

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Maybe it's because I'm often looking at business-oriented laptops as a consumer, but I usually find the RAM and storage to be on the low side compared to the CPU specs.

I don't need a top-of-the-line i7 CPU (the improvement when going from e.g. an i5 usually isn't enough to really matter), and the premium you pay isn't negligible. On the other hand, the lower-end models that don't splurge on an i7 and come with a mid-range CPU such as an i5 instead still often have only 8 GB of RAM. That's definitely not future-proof or even present-proof for a laptop that otherwise has mid-range specs in terms of performance.

It seems ridiculous that you have to either pay for a top-of-the-line model or be stuck with sub-par RAM for the entire lifetime of the device.

Corporations will of course happily buy the higher-end model for their developers, so this probably isn't a problem in an actual corporate environment.

Supporting tons of slightly different configurations is an impediment to efficient operations though. There’s some logic to doing things that way.

Unfortunately, more often than not, the logic behind it is market segmentation, not technical or operational efficiency

I'm not sure which is the main thing and which is the pleasant side effect but I have to imagine both considerations enter their minds.

I don't see why that's the case for Lenovo though (which I'm most familiar with - Thinkpads), since you have to order online. They could do batches of different configurations, it might add a small delay for particular configurations, but that would be ok. What they do now, mostly limiting larger RAM/storage configs to top end CPUs, seems like an upsell (though at least their storage is usually replaceable, and aftermarket offers better price/choice, though the spare small capacity device is a waste).

In Apple's case, it simply seems like an upsell. They must have enough volume to sell lower spec, large storage capacity Macbook Airs at stores, or online.

Most people buy low end machines from Apple. They just keep volume handy. Although recently when I went to Apple store they had no stock at all here in the UK of anything. Literally emptied out.

Yes, but how much does it cost Apple to put a larger volume in, compared to what they charge the consumer for that one feature? I have very often seen Apple users hampered by this, including losing data due to having to juggle external storage. Upsell.

Tell that to European car manufacturers, almost no two cars are identical. I've heard that some models have more possible variations than there are v6 addresses.

If some of the components such as RAM were made replaceable, that wouldn't be the OEM's problem. They could still ship only a few configurations. When you decided the original RAM or storage isn't enough, you'd just ask your local shop to upgrade.

I'm not even asking for upgradeable CPUs or GPUs. Those could be a bit complicated on laptops due to chipset compatibility, power and thermal design issues, etc. But RAM is relatively cheap, can be made relatively easy to replace, and is a common thing to run low on. The same pretty much goes for storage. It seems weird and counter-productive to have components like that be soldered in and non-replaceable even by a professional.

The approach Qualcomm has taken in their flagship ARM processors is probably correct for laptops as well as phones.

There are four low-power single thread cores. They do grunt work at high efficiency but low capability.

There are three medium-power single thread cores. They suck up more electricity when in use but can get tasks that the user cares about accomplished, and sleep all the time that the phone is not running the UI.

Then there is one high-power single thread core, which is just a turbo-speed variant of the medium cores. That's the one that wakes up for user interaction.

Of course, if you can scale power-consumption and computing together, you would just make an 8-core high-power chip and sleep and throttle on demand -- or, in-between, Apple's M1, which has four low and four high cores.

There are somewhat reliable rumors that intel are doing exactly this big.LITTLE config in the near future. [0] https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introdu...

It isn't a rumor. Intel announced it at CES.

https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-...

The reviews on those Intel heterogenous cores were terrible in both battery life and performance. Intel gonna Intel.

Maybe they're looking to start on a clean slate with their RISC-V investments then, they're late to the ARM game and will never catch up to apple or probably even qualcomm, their x86 designs are slowly and surely dropping off, and they'd have to make massive strides to change that.

This was definitely a driver for us. We want to let consumers buy exactly the machine they need in the near term (CPU, memory, and storage), and be able to upgrade just the parts that they need to later.

The Framework's ports are all on user-selectable, replaceable expansion modules. If one of the USB-C ports dies, you just unplug it and install a new one.

What happens if the expansion port itself becomes damaged? Would you need to change out the motherboard?

AKA square, flushmount dongles.

The expansion modules themselves are USB C dongles designed to fit flush in the case

If the internal USB C ports get damaged, presumably the device can be opened and repaired.

They mention that several other such ports like the audio and power are easily replaceable so that seems a fair assumption. The modules are also track-mounted and appear to lock into place somehow, so it seems unlikely that the internal connection will suffer the same kind of torture an external port would.

It would be extremely difficult to damage the internal USB-C ports on the mainboard itself. The USB-C Expansion Cards are what cables would be plugged into and cycled repeatedly, and our Expansion Card bays also have mechanical retention features that mean the insertion of the card itself is always aligned to avoid wear or damage.

What you're missing is that these ports are actually USB C dongles. If one of the _original_ USB C ports dies, it's dead. Ie the hot swap ports basically connect to USB C ports built into the machine. It's a clever UX hack (which I'm totally for), but it's not solving the technical issue here.

For transparency I actually love the idea behind the Framework laptop, I've been hyped since January!

> At least Apple stick them on a daughterboard.

This is the least Appley thing I’ve heard recently. Making everything as small as possible with every single trade off that entails is their style. I say that as a hardline Mac user.

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