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Comment by cletus | Hacker News Reader

I don’t understand why the US seems so incapable of simple action that displaces a very minor special interest.

In Australia we got rid of the one and two cent coins 30 years ago because the buying power of the ten cent piece then was less than one cent piece originally when introduced in the 1960s.

There was no big debate or opposition and no lobbying by coin producers or those who produced the metals. It just happened and basically everyone was happy not to deal with more pointless small change. And people still largely paid with cash too so electronic payment wasn’t as significant as it is today.

It shouldn’t be this hard.

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The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. So there is at least precedent here.

If there was actually a push to abolish pennies, it would become a partisan/political issue immediately and all rational discourse would evaporate.

If you really want to see the penny go away, do what I do: literally throw them away. I did the math and found that the time, space, and attention needed to deal with them was costing me more than 1 cent per coin.

I estimate that I have thrown away about $10 in pennies over the last few years and don't miss a single one.

> The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago.

The stores (PX, or whatever your branch calls it) I used in Iraq used cardboard discs for all coins, including quarters. I figured it was to reduce having to ship all that metal out just so Marines could buy dip. But they're already shipping humvees and such, why not some rolls of quarters?

I kept forgetting to bring them whenever I bought something and amassed a big bag of pogs. Eventually I threw them away. That's probably the real reason. All transactions suddenly round up to the dollar!

It's so if the money ever gets captured by the enemy it isn't usable.

> The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago.

They would also dump unwanted currency on the military, like $2 bills, Susan B Anthony dollars, etc.

I’ll trade them. Those are my favorite for messing with gen-z cashiers.

Disneyland used to give 2 dollar bills out as change all the time. It was fun.

I used to always ask for those at the bank, if they had any kicking around in the drawer. It was kind of fun but I didn't usually spend them; I didn't want to be the jerk who made store cashiers try to fit them in their cash drawers.

I used to always keep about 100$ in 2$ bills in my travel bag when I traveled often... it was the emergency cash that I'd -never- use unless I was really screwed and needed cash. (Sorry cash only, credit card machine down... Sorry cash only, etc)

Now I just keep a few 20$ behind my phone case for the same purpose.

When I bought my first car, I was friends with the seller and wanted to prank her a little. So when I gave her the cash, I had the first $20 in $2 bills. I don't do stuff like that any more because of the inconvenience but it was fun at the time.

Back in the early 90's I worked with an older gentlemen who was a submariner who told a story about $2 bills. Apparently there were some locals at one port who were constantly complaining about the sailors causing a ruckus, etc.. So to show what a valuable presence the U.S. Navy was, they started paying the sailor exclusively in $2 bills, with the thought being that this would show the local businesses what impact the Navy was having on the local economy. Apparently this was somewhat successful.

Additional precedent (although not one that resonates much with the typical American): Ecuador, a place that uses USD as its currency and where pennies are worth a lot more in spending power, does not use pennies. Nickels and above only.

Exactly. The half-cent coin was discontinued in 1857, when it was worth the equivalent of 15 cents today. At this point, not just the penny, but also the nickel and dime should be discontinued (and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills). Everything below the quarter is functionally worthless in normal quantities, and even quarters only serve as laundry tokens.

> and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills

What is the reasoning for wanting $1/2/5 coins instead of paper? Don't most people prefer paper?

IME, one and two Euro/Pound coins are incredibly useful and I much prefer them over paper. It makes it worthwhile to carry change around when I can make small purchases with them, and as a bonus I don't have to dig into my wallet for small bills.

I'm not sold on the idea of a $5 coin yet, though. But I just argued a pretty good case for them, didn't I.

The 500-yen coin seems to work fine in Japan.

No one is interested because we don’t use that much cash to make it an issue. Even most vending machines have machines for cards or NFC payments on cellphone.

The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly. They vote in droves and will probably strike something like that down.

The US and Germany are two western countries that have relatively high use of cash, and relative distrust of electronic payments - it's only been in the last decade or so that the US has slowly started moving away from signatures for payment and I'm still regularly asked to do it. That's unheard of in almost all comparable countries. You can also see people paying with literal $100 bills at the supermarket.

Use of $100s is in sharp decline for most retail transactions in most of the US, as is cash in general. Most USians under 30 don't carry any cash at all.

As someone who always pays in cash, this is increasingly inconvenient. There are occasionally shops that won't take cash at all.

Cash can still be found in poor communities, as well as the big cities in NY and CA, as well as Las Vegas. Everywhere else is rapidly going cashless.

I always carry some cash, even if I usually pay with card. many many stores have a minimum purchase to use a card, and most these days no longer accept checks. cash is my only option.

I ran into only one store that had a minimum purchase to use card, and they didn't accept cash or checks at all. I just left the stuff on the counter and walked out.

Philadelphia has banned cashless stores: https://www.inquirer.com/business/cashless-ban-philadelphia-...

I've noticed some out of towners come in and get surprised at how many businesses are cash only, from humble produce stands to fine dining establishments. With that in mind, there is at least some inertia that people know to expect when they need cash (or at least when to tap MAC).

Not everyone can get a bank account or credit card. So, it's important that stuff like grocery stores, clothing retail, etc. accept cash. This is orthogonal to whether or not we really need pennies though :)

High-end restaurants being cash only? That’s bizarre. I’d never go out to dinner carrying like 200 dollars.

I never go out of my house without my passport and enough cash for a week in a hotel and a brand new laptop.

$200 won't even get you a cab and a new phone after you get mugged for all your cards and mobile.

Philly also banned stores and restaurants from using bulletproof glass. Seems to me they care more about avoiding the appearance of racism than they do about the ability of store owners to protect their employees or property from criminals. Going cash free would effectively eliminate the threat of armed robbery for most stores, while also limiting the ability of employees to steal and reducing expenses related to handling cash, but we can't have nice things because disparate impact or whatever the buzzword of the day is.

I was at a cafe and a homeless dude came in wanting to buy a coke for cash, the barista pointed to the “card only” sign and the guy left without buying. Seems explicitly anti homeless at times.

A small business never having to handle cash would have a non-trivial labor savings. Counting cash drawers in and out, preparing bank deposits, etc takes time that you have to pay for. No cash also means no theft of cash (by employees, generally).

Totally fair points, good call

That's true but it's not all savings; if you accept credit cards then you get to pay credit card fees.

Yes, but there used to be elaborate systems for handling cash. Department stores had pneumatic systems that would take deposits of cash and zap it to the strong room. When I first started shopping at Costco #2 they had such a system.

The armored car fees, the bonded employees in the strong room, the extra guards, insurance, etc. weren't cheap. I remember reading an article about how happy businessmen (we're talking the 60's, so men) were to reduce the cash handling part of the business. Can't find it now but they felt the fees were worth it. Of course, they were much lower then.

The U.S mint made 7.5 billion pennies last year. Each of those pennies cost more than a penny to produce. The people asking for pennies to keep being produced is the Zinc lobby. Over 20% of transactions are still cash and using pennies just adds extra inefficiencies to that process while wasting money just making the things.

I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long.

I remember a town, not too long ago (5 years?) Hilo I believe, that had parking meters that stated: "Nickel or penny for convenience" For 10 minutes of parking.

But at least you don’t get your info stolen when you park [0]. It’s a nice side-effect of using physical money. Also nice that it’s cheap.

[0] - https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/parkmobile-breach-expose...

> I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long.

Bus fare boxes often will, although they don't show it on the sticker. I got rid of a ton of pennies when I was riding a bus regularly.

Hahaha! YOU'RE the guy taking five minutes to pay! Cling cling cling cling cling whrrrrrr cling cling cling cling whrrrrrrr cling cling cling..... :)

In my defense, I would usually only do five or ten pennies in one fare, and not on a busy route where it would back things up.

I did use snack machines to turn dimes and nickles into quarters at college though. Insert 25 cents, press coin return, get a quarter. Maybe go to 50 cents, but be sure to not put in enough to buy anything, or you'll have to. Snack machines took all worthwhile coins, but laundry machines were quarters only.

I worked with a guy who I distinctly remember saying:

> You don't know how happy I was when I discovered the ticket machines in the (NYC) Subway took nickels.

> The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly.

And of course almost every single brick-and-mortar business...

I'm still salty that it made my Dick Smith beer-powered radio kit harder to assemble (which used copper and iron for the electrodes).

West Wing has a scene or two about the penny. They say it's because it has Lincoln and IL was in that universe important politically. Is that really the reason? What are the other special interests?

The nickel costs even more than the penny does, relative to its value. Eliminating the penny--and shifting the usage to the nickel even harder--may will not save any money whatsoever.

Maybe we should have stable currency that isn’t worth 10% of its former value after 60 years.

Sadly even before the gold standard was abolished the government found plenty of ways to cause inflation, the problem is the Federal Reserve

Lobbying by cotton and linen/secure paper mills (and their congressmen, like Ted Kennedy) are the reason why the USA has had 3 different dollar coins in the modern era but can't eliminate the paper dollar bill.

REF: https://books.google.com/books?id=TXD0DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA4&ots=d...

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