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Comment by Gracana | Hacker News Reader

I'm envious of people who can work with freely available standards.

In my industry (machine design, industrial automation), almost all of the standards cost money. UL, CSA, NSF, ANSI, ASME, BSi, IEC, ISO, DIN, etc. Our library contains many thousands of dollars worth of documents, and it costs many more to keep them up to date. If your company has a slow or complicated purchasing process, it's a real hinderance when you realize you need a standard and have to stop working so you can deal with acquiring it.

I think the only ones that are freely available are NFPA 70 (national electric code), NFPA 79 (electrical standard for industrial machinery), but if you want to download or print them, you still have to pay.

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My library (in the same industry) contains a few hundred dollars worth of documents, because that's all I could get purchasing to pay for. We're just a small integrator, many to most in our field simply don't know what's in the documents because they don't buy any of them.

You can go a long way with cargo-cult designs, and a ton of companies get by with approximations, but there are a ton of mistakes made because ANSI/ISO/DIN/IEC refuse to make the documents available for free.

I feel your pain. Most projects I work on are medical software, often connected to hardware. Getting this stuff certified is impossible without paying thousands of euros for the standards and then you pay even more for a few people who judge if you did it like the standard says.

But maybe the next project will be outside of the medical field.

Sorry to intrude with an ignorant question, but I know next to nothing about this and it sparked my curiosity. These thousands of dollars in documents are the text descriptions/instructions of various ISO standards? Do they really cost that much or am I misinterpreting? Wouldn't their content have been pirated by now if they were so expensive? (assuming i'm correctly imagining what you said)

I challenge you to find a pirated copy of IEC 61362 "Guide to specification of hydraulic turbine governing systems" online. It does not exist. The company I used to work for, which specialized in turbine governing systems costing millions of dollars, would not pay the $300 for that document.

As pointed out in another comment and previously on HN, my new favourite source for specs are regional English translations from Estonia. Here’s one for IEC 61362 for 22 EUR: https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-61362-2012

> It does not exist

Sure does! First line from a random page (44) of 61362:2012: "...the runner blade opening is brought to a certain position to provide a given flow rate after load..."

They wouldn't pay $300 for it because the price is too high or because they don't need it? If their specialty makes them need the document, why would they not pay $300? I'm curious.

If you are in this type of business, you probably also get regular audits. Checking that you have access to the relevant standards is something that ends up checked from time to time. Pirated copies will do more harm then good when that time arrives.

Standards of questionable origin are fine when an engineer just needs to check something and the result is not critical. (Have you seen how many standards are called out in a simple specification document for something as mundane as a resistor? Don't tell me IEC 60757 is really worth owning!) Managers don't even have to know these standards exist.

Anything you claim compliance or certification with, though... that's your core business we're talking about! At least buy those from Estonia!

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