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Comment by OriginalNebula | Hacker News Reader

Did you contact Arbeiterkammer, VKI or Peter Kolba?

I contacted and spoke at length with the Austrian Kosumantenschutz. https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/beratung/konsumentenschutz/ind... The product is clearly and at minimum a case of false advertising as there is nothing approaching a computer chip inside. However and though sympathetic the KS/AK said they couldn't do anything and couldn't refer me to anybody who could. I found this rather surprising.

Try to contact the other two. You can reach Peter Kolba here https://www.verbraucherschutzverein.at/Kontakt/ or on Twitter even https://twitter.com/KolbaPeter. He won the case against Volkswagen so if anyone can help you then him.

The University of Salzburg also has a "Ethikkommission" https://www.plus.ac.at/service/uni-administration/gesamtuniv... and "Kommission zur Sicherung guter wissenschaftlicher Praxis" https://www.plus.ac.at/service/uni-administration/gesamtuniv...

Thankyou for the tip. I'Ll look into it tomorrow.

No, thank you!

Austria has a weird thing with pseudoscience scams [0][1][2] and it needs to be dealt with.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belebtes_Wasser

[1] The current Minister of Economy was working as an "energizer" https://www.diepresse.com/5395317/wirtschaftsministerin-schr...

[2] During the construction of a hospital in Vienna, an "energetic" ring was built around the construction site for 95000 Euro. https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000076199184/krankenhaus-w...

among others

@OriginalNebula There is also this

https://www.air-innovation.fr/en/produit/vague-de-bien-etre-...

and were installed into hospitals in austria at great cost

https://www.salzburg24.at/news/salzburg/wo-in-salzburg-noch-...

Unsurprisingly the owner of powerinsole a Mr Martin Masching is also involved in this enterprise via

https://geowave-shop.at/epages/c0f45b90-03b3-4b2d-8e1d-55912...

I think its time you contact some investigative journalists with this Powerinsole/Geowave connection.

https://twitter.com/florianklenk klenk@falter.at

https://twitter.com/ThomasWalach redaktion@zackzack.at

https://twitter.com/mnikbakhsh nikbakhsh.michael@profil.at

https://twitter.com/ukschmid

Meanwhile I'm trying to launch a simple health related mobile app and it's an absolutely insurmountable amount of paperwork for a solo dev.

One "hack" to get around that is to change your health app into a "beauty" or "cosmetic" or "wellness" app. It's a very different set of regulations.

Yep, I'd love to do that, but I'm squarely in the health sector, no getting around that sadly. I might end up cutting some of the main features to qualify as a lifestyle app though. Sad but better than not launching I guess.

Everything is dependent on your intended use. If you don't intend health use but just research etc then you are fine.

Not to mention almost all pharmacies selling homeopathic rubbish. I find this particularly irritating given the ridiculously regulations and control around things like buying paracetamol or ibuprofen.

Medical and ethical standards are in complete free fall in European pharmacies. I was told by my vet to rinse my dog’s eyes in sterile isotonic saline solution. When I went to the pharmacy to ask for it they didn’t know what it was. They suggested using chlorhexidine wound disinfectant instead.

My poor dog would have probably been blind or worse if I had taken the advice. But they don’t care, they just want to move products, whatever the cost.

I sympathize, and good for you for not doing it!

If I can suggest something to look into (i.e. not recommend!):

I use NeilMed sinus rinse which is just saline and bicarbonate (so pH balanced). Use distilled water to mix it. You can buy it at most drugstores.

This is not sterile unless you sterilize everything, but at least there are no funky chemicals.

Thanks. I’m sure regular table salt and googling the concentration would have done the trick, but there’s something to be said for those 30 ml plastic vials you break off a ribbon that you know have the right stuff and is sterile and stays that way until you use it. I don’t want to take risks with things I don’t have enough knowledge to make them calculated risks. But it worries me when some of the people we defer to wouldn’t even pass high school chemistry.

After having checked five pharmacies with nobody having heard of it the vet took pity on me and gave me a handful out of their supply closet.

Yeah. My vet gave me Prednisone for MY dog's itching, and I refused to give it to him. Major side effects on that drug.

What ridiculous regulations are there with regard to ibuprofen and paracetamol? Are you talking about the fact that medicines are not allowed to be sold in supermarkets?

I think it's a good thing, since it's a pretty good guarantee that you actually get what you buy.

You can get ibuprofen and paracetamol at any pharmacy in Austria for a few euros without a prescription. And in every district there's always a pharmacy that is open 24h.

And pharmacists can actually give proper medical advice on the products!

they can and do give proper medical advice on the medical products they are selling but at the same time they are selling homeopathic products and other magic pills, powders and devices from the same counter. This seems conflict of interest / ethics. I am not sure why pharmacies are not regulated but that is the way it is in Austria.

Wasn’t their a serious debunk of homeopathy EU-wise? Was their stronger country-level laws that defended this scam in Austria?

Because in Hungary I no longer see them around.

It's unfortunately surprisingly common for doctors and nurses to recommend all kinds of quack treatments in Austria. The pharmacies are not the only profiteers of these scams.

Nah it's absolutely daft and just guild protectionism for things like paracetamol.

Fake or bad goods are not an issue in developed countries without these extreme rules.

But that's not my point. My point is that such extreme rules stand in stark contrast to the sale of snake oil.

Neurosocks is on display in my local pharmacy where I live in Austria. Right by the front door on a 1x2m stall.

https://brutkasten.com/neuro-socks/

this company also makes

https://neuro-socks.com/produkt/vaxhaptic-pflaster/

These products including powerinsole are marketed by a local tv station and program https://www.puls4.com/2-minuten-2-millionen/staffel-8 which pretends to be a startup investment show but is really just an infomercial for woo products.

Wow, that water looks amazing! Is anybody using it to brew bulletproof coffee[0]?

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/style/the-cult-of-the-bul...

tweet sent https://twitter.com/sltyhkr/status/1417213194540625925

I don't understand what the problem is: The data in the double-blind study clearly shows no statistically significant effects (just look at N and the standard deviation bars) and the company doesn't claim that there would be such effects.

The company only says there is a "positive trend" which there indeed is.

Doesn't matter if the SD bars make it obvious. No layman can read such a chart. The text 110% makes it sound like the study PROVES without any doubt that the product had an effect.

"the lactate measurement shows a difference" "The lower lactate value with Powerinsole means longer performance and a later onset of muscle fatigue." and finally "Even with the first application of the power insole, a lower skin conductance is evident compared to the placebo. This means that the power insole can help reduce stress levels."

Nowhere are they talking about statistical significance.

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