Comment by jl6 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jl6 | Hacker News Reader

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Hello. Original author here.

I do realize how ugly PDFs are to work with (I wrote my own PDF/A generator for issue 2[2]). This is a Tagged PDF though, so you can extract text using standard tools.

To understand the mindset, have a read of the Gemini FAQ[0], specifically the answer to why not use a subset of HTML - and then read Issue 2[2] which is a hybrid Gemini+PDF polyglot, for people who don't like reading PDFs, which is apparently everyone on this thread :)

Issue 1[1] also moves beyond PDF, to try addressing some of the accessibility shortcomings by (a) prepending the content as plain text, and (b) recording myself reading the whole thing out and arranging the file as a polyglot MP3 and PDF file that can be played in an audio player as well as viewed in a PDF reader as well as a text editor.

A mini-FAQ to address some points elsewhere in the thread:

* No, it's not going to replace your blog or the web in general.

* Yes, it's an experimental art project / longitudinal CTF forensics tournament / weirdo personal blog.

* Yes, I'm serious anyway.

[0] https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.gmi

[1] https://lab6.com/1

[2] https://lab6.com/2

> The problem is that deciding upon a strictly limited subset of HTTP and HTML, slapping a label on it and calling it a day would do almost nothing to create a clearly demarcated space where people can go to consume only that kind of content in only that kind of way. It's impossible to know in advance whether what's on the other side of a https:// URL will be within the subset or outside it. It's very tedious to verify that a website claiming to use only the subset actually does, as many of the features we want to avoid are invisible (but not harmless!) to the user

But I don't really know that your PDF website doesn't use some evil invisible PDF feature.

And I have to use a special Gemini browser to access Gemini pages. (Since an HTTPS bridge misses the point)

So why not use Dillo as my "Sane subset of HTML"? It is not hard to hand-write HTML that looks great in Lynx, Dillo, and Firefox.

> It is not hard to hand-write HTML that looks great in Lynx, Dillo, and Firefox.

Actually, it is. I love Dillo, but it's very limited. I like to make my images "fluid" using max-width and max-height attributes, and Dillo will not support those in any foreseeable future.

But again, I still love Dillo.

> would do almost nothing to create a clearly demarcated space

How do you create that demarcated space where PDF/A, PDF 2.0, and all other PDF versions can be mingled together, and there's no easy way to distinguish them?

I don't like reading PDFs and probably wouldn't read much of your website like that... but I appreciate the intervention drawing our attention to the advantages of PDFs in the disadvantaged present environment, which I think are real and worth thinking about. It seems almost like an artistic project. I'm not mad at you, and am not sure what makes some people seem to be so mad here (probably means you were succesful at something)... but I'm still not gonna read it, PDFs are a mess to read!

I've spent entirely too much time "printing" sites and articles to PDF to save them to read or reference later. Your PDF style was perfect! No need to fuss with anything just save it!

This thread might be helpful to you https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27817659

I think the idea of PDFs opens up many new possibilities, and your work is quite an eye opener. Design is largely missing from websites - it’s the same design over and over when it comes to optimizing for clicks.

Designers would thrive in a PDF environment instead of handing their designs over to implementation as it is now.

Maybe PDF is just the beginning and maybe a similar format can be thought up that addresses some of the concerns expressed here, and move over in time.

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