Ask HN: Help me get my friend,a retired US Army officer, into IT management

"When HR gets to know that he is combat veteran, they run for the hills (I heard phone interviews)."

Sounds like he's applying to the wrong companies. Look for companies that that domain knowledge, like Lockheed, General Dynamics, etc. There are also organizations that will help veterans find jobs (some might have timeframe limits, others might only help those who are unemployed).

Of course he will still need to learn about IT. Maybe get scrum master certified. Maybe get an MBA or business certificate to show he understands stuff like budgeting. AWS Cloud Practitioner is easy and will give him a basic understanding of concepts and jargon associated with the platform. I would say it would be good to learn at least one language and build a small project with it, then look at more complex projects on GitHub just to understand the architectures. A class on system's architecture would be a good idea too. It's important to understand the basic concepts and structure behind the project as well as the budgeting and development processes to be able to make strategic leadership decisions about it.

Take a look at https://aws.amazon.com/careers/military/ and the technical apprenticeship path. No experience required, payed apprenticeship w/ real on the job training, full time offer on completion, multiple job roles available, lots of demand for TS/SCI/CI w/ extra pay, multiple languages a huge plus for some roles. Feel free to reach out to me if you want more details or to talk to not-a-recruiter.

To be honest, I am tired of IT managers who have no hands on experience in IT. No mater if this is development or operations.

I have exactly the same experience (I'm software engineer). That is why my question is becoming more complicated, even to myself.

What makes you think he’s fit for IT management? I work at a place where there are lots of military veterans and the IT dept has the worst time with them because they are too structured and stiff at the top and too “yeah whatever bro I’ll just shoot the thing” at the bottom.

Unfortunately nothing of what you mention makes him stand out as an IT manager. Does he at least know what the difference between a problem and an incident is?

Maybe have him look into the ITIL cert. I personally think it’s junk because I’ve been in IT for 12 years, but my boss could def benefit from some terms since he’s not an IT guy. Still sucks to have him as a manager because it’s a waste of time to talk to him every time. He can’t help me when I have an issue and he can’t really defend us if needed because he can’t check the veracity of anything technical.

I would have him look into military adjacent roles in big defence companies like Boeing. For example: writing Chinook maintenance manuals, which only really requires excellent reading and writing skills. They need PMs and editors by the dozens to keep track of all the different Chinook versions for dozens of different use cases. There are literally thousands of jobs just like that in every Boeing site, and they greatly prefer ex-military.

There's no way that a person with zero IT experience should be into IT management. Just no way.

He should get at least some certifications from Microsoft in Azure and SQL. At least learn Python. Networking basics.

But zero experience? No.

For example, Equifax chief security officer Susan Mauldin was a college music major, and zero security certifications or training. The largest breach of credit financial records of half of Americans happened for very simple reasons under her watch. Equifax’s breach was caused by a known and critical vulnerability that went unpatched for months. Addressing critical vulnerabilities is basic security hygiene.

Why did they hire someone with a music degree and no security training? What would be their motivation to hire someone like this?

I have a degree in computer science and a lot of programming and systems experience, but zero specialty in security and would never even think of becoming a security manager. Because I have no detailed knowledge of it on a super granular level.

In the same way, your buddy should not be any type of IT manager.

Well, anyways, she was an IT manager with zero background and that is what happened, so no, your buddy needs to get some training and certifications and work experience in IT first.

He has no IT experience at all. Why do you think he would be a desirable IT manager?

Can I be upfront and honest for a sec ? I have seen boat of load of incompetent IT managers with decades of experience in Fortune x0 companies.

Doesn't mean we need yet another one of those.

I just had lunch today with a guy who spent 20+ years as a project manager for a major desktop software firm, starting in the early 90s. He was adamant that IT and project management are on a downward pay spiral and are overstaffed. He transitioned into doing cybersecurity reviews for military contractors/vendors to help them meet US govt security requirements. (Open question what those might be, but he said the pipeline hack wouldn't have happened if they had been through this review process). Given your friend's security clearances, this might be a more interesting and profitable niche.

I'm seeing this in my company. The company has been continually combining roles and using the lower pay.

When I started 9 years ago we had systems managers. It's hard to say exactly how much they were making, but reasonably the average was around $170k. Then they sort of combined systems managers and PMs to create team managers that were paid at the PM level. Again, this is hard to pin down the exact average, but it would be about $140k. Now they want chapter leads who code 60% of the time and people lead the other 40% with scrum masters (usually split between 2 or more teams) instead of PMs. The chapter lead is making about the same as a senior dev around $125k. Scrum masters make less than PMs.

I really don't like the combining of roles. I think it doesn't allow people to focus and forces context switching. How can a chapter lead participate in their dev work and meeting while also knowing what devs are doing on several other teams to be able to meaningfully lead them? All while crushing the moral of the existing employees because we can see that our future progression and earning opportunities were cut down from what they once were.

Don’t listen to the noise here. Company level command is a valuable asset.

I would suggest that he pursue a PMP or similar certification and use project management as an entry point. The discipline of a combat officer with the music background sounds like a good talent to develop.

I’m surprised and dismayed to hear about the HR reactions.

Doesn’t he have any friends from military who founded IT company?

This is how it works in Israel.

If he is that good, he must have tons of connections just waiting to be refreshed and activated.

Wish you luck.

No IT founders. He know a lot of Israeli musicians and got me hooked on old military Israeli music. My favorite: https://youtu.be/qoLIgmbD2fA

This is a funny comment. I have family in Israel who say similar things (recently: "Why are you still wearing a mask? In Israel we just vaccinated everyone.") Connections work that way in Israel because everybody was in the military. The crossover between tech founders and IDF is therefore by definition close to 100%. In America there is far less crossover. The last time military service was a widespread shared experience in America was the end of WW2.

I realize that. Just shared different perspective and emphasized the point that connections is the best way of finding a job.

No matter what is the crossover if you have many connections you can usually find at least few relevant.

You can still build a big network with ex-military buddies. Those bonds tend to be stronger than the ones formed in a non-military (or similar group/experience) network.

But you are correct, the percentage of the US population in the military is about 2%, and the percentage of veterans is about 7%.

Have he considered going into the defense industry? There are lots of management opportunities given his background, security clearance and experience.

Was he in the 75th Ranger Regiment or “just” Ranger tabbed?

Was he in US Army Special Forces?

He should get onto LinkedIn ASAP and put in his full Army quake and assignments and reconnect to other soldiers he’s worked with and network with them. There is a rich special operations community on LI.

82nd, he was in Special Operations. Thank you for suggestion.

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/awsintelligence Might have something that’s a good fit and previous military experience definitely won’t hurt him.

That guy would have 0 problems finding a management job in another industry, why IT?

I am a developer for JB Hunt Transport. I work with many veterans daily. We achieved our commitment to employ 10,000 veterans between 2014 and 2020. I understand, as a non-veteran, that the support and community for veterans is excellent. He should seriously consider joining us, we would love to have on our team :)

https://careers.jbhunt.com/military

If he has a willingness to learn, JB Hunt will teach him the tech he needs to know.

Thank you, I will forward this to him !

Why IT Management? What about programming?

unfortunately, he doesn't want to do it.

then he probably shouldn't be managing people who do (programming)

here is a problem (I'm software engineer). I have seen multi million software project run into to the ground by a very very experience software engineers. Why do you thing he will do worst ?

He is likely to do better, but it's not much of a sales pitch.

Yeah, it'd be easy for me to get a promotion if all it took was pointing out the worst examples and saying, "See, I can't do worse than that!". But the world doesn't work that way, except maybe for two party system politicians...

Insert NCO joke about who gets things done...

What companies are discriminating against veterans and why?

Isn't that illegal? I guess they would have to admit it, otherwise it would be hard to prove.

Of course it is illegal. But HR can twist it around and just say that he is not a suitable candidate.