Ask HN: Did you quit smoking cannabis? If so, why? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Did you quit smoking cannabis? If so, why?

56 pointsherbst125 comments

I know this is offtopic, but i figure there are many current or past pot smokers on here.

I recently had the idea to quit smoking, but somehow it does not really suit me and i started to ask why i even should. The main argument i keep finding is alike "heavy smokers are lazy and likely won't get successful in their job or life" and stuff like this, which might is true in statistics but not for me.

On the opposite i am happy to have a tool that i can use to calm down that isn't valium or alcohol, that helps my migrains as well as is able to give me creative kicks i need for my work.

I am wondering what your experience is, what changed?

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I've done a little research (only a little) into cannabis and health, and not surprisingly (due to legal complications), it's difficult to get very specific answers when you drill down into specific use patterns.

For instance, I read a study that people who use cannabis 4 or more days a week experience certain harmful psychological and physical effects. I get it, and I haven't read the full study, only the mainstream press overview... but right off the bat, think about a study that describes people who "use" alcohol 4 days a week. This includes people who drink one beck's "ultra premium light" 2.3%ABV every day and people who drink a fifth of bourbon a day or worse. It wouldn't make any sense for the beck's drinker to infer much from this study.

The state of cannabis research seems very limited - again, there's a good reason for this. But what does it mean to "use" cannabis. There are CBD heavy strains that have ~3%THC, and strains that exceed 30%TCH. How much do you smoke?

Someone who takes, say, 3 drags of low THC weed twice a week is smoking the equivalent of less than cigarette every two weeks. And the psychoactive effect is likely very, very mild.

I'm also learning (post-legalization markets) that the scenario I described above is becoming quite common, so I don't think it's an edge case anymore, even if it isn't the norm.

Ultimately, unless someone describes the kind of cannabis and the frequency and dose, I can't get much out of these stories or even the more formal research.

You are right. I think the fact that we have high quality oldschool and medical strains dominating the market here in Switzerland makes it so much more common for people to smoke it and things like anxiexy and panic many here describe simply are less common.

For some people it leads to issues. Here are some of the possible issues one can encounter: depression, anxiety, loss of motivation, psychosis, low testosterone, lack of energy / motivation, loss of concentration, short-term memory loss, lung damage...

Whether or not an individual experiences any of these negative side effects will likely depend on a variety of different factors ranging from the person's personality, to their genes, their state of mental and physical health, how often they smoke, and what precisely they smoke. I'm not sure where you live or what kind of weed you smoke but a lot of weed on the streets of the US today has a dramatically higher level of THC than it did in the past. When the THC levels are much higher than the other cannabinoid compounds it increases the risk of psychosis.

So I think the bottom line here is that you need be careful and be mindful that weed is not "harmless." Growing up, we thought it was harmless because you can't overdose on it and people don't generally smoke all their money away the way some people do with other drugs. But it can still fuck you up. It just takes longer and does so in much more subtle ways.

I hope that helps you...

> what kind of weed you smoke but a lot of weed on the streets of the US today has a dramatically higher level of THC than it did in the past

This is a good point. I live in Switzerland, we have a healthy cannabis market that is mostly dominated by growers from the 80s and 90s. We do have the "killer weed" the youth likes to smoke, but the majority of stuff i come in contact with are classic, medical or at least CBD heavy strains. Nobody in my circle likes getting super high, we all just enjoy the good ol' buzz.

> So I think the bottom line here is that you need be careful and be mindful that weed is not "harmless."

You are absolutely right. I also have a little hate for myself for starting way to early which surely didn't help my mental development.

However i am way more afraid of Sugars and excessive Chemicals in my food that are slowly poisoning me. So for health perspective i would rather spend my efforts quitting sugars or cigarette smoking for a start :)

> I hope that helps you...

It did, thank you for your input!

> ... but a lot of weed on the streets of the US today has a dramatically higher level of THC than it did in the past.

There's some truth to this, but in a misleading way. Sure, in the '70's, the product we'd snag in the streets, leaves mainly, was in no way as potent contemporary product.

But, but, we were just as discerning then as now. Should we wish something a bit more potent, it was widely available. At that time, most product from Thailand, and a great deal from Afghanistan certainly compare.

In sum, if you wanted it, it was available for a price. So the belief, "much stronger than in the past," is somewhat of a canard.

I think you make make an important point here. Right now, I think many people (in the US, anyway) are now creating a counter-narrative to the previous "war on drugs" mentality that vastly overstated the dangers of cannabis and vastly understated the harm of criminalization. However, it is certainly possible to go too far with this counter-narrative, and at times, yeah, I do think that some people are practically pushing the use of powerful cannabis if if it were some sort of health elixir. It can absolutely be a harmful substance, let's not forget that.

I do believe that occasional use of mild cannabis is generally harmless for most people. But I am in agreement with you that all use (or perhaps even typical use) isn't necessary harmless.

> It can absolutely be a harmful substance, let's not forget that.

Less so than alcohol, let’s not forget that.

I don’t disagree with you, it can be harmful and doesn’t solve all problems, but the above can hopefully give some perspective.

People can waste extraordinary amounts of time with either, form some kind of dependency, but harm from direct consumption or secondary effects are, let’s say … „less common“.

Also to be considered is that any substance can be harmful if abused in excess; even "harmless" substances or beneficial substances. Even drinking too much water can lead to "water poisoning" [1]. It's even led to a death in a radio contest [2]. There's also the fact that not every person responds to every substance in exactly the same way. Some may experience adverse effects after minor exposure, where others may abuse a thing in excess and never display any outward signs of a negative effect.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

[2] http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/hold-your-wee-w...

I quit due to anxiety attacks. After 1 drag of basically anything (chronic, cheap shit, indica, sativa, you name it), it would take no longer than 1 minute to begin.

Every time I explain that, in roll the fans telling me I'm somehow doing it wrong. I smoked the shit daily for years, I knew the ins and out of weed.

It just leads to issues with some people, as you said.

>Every time I explain that, in roll the fans telling me I'm somehow doing it wrong.

"Wrong strain, bro"

I started experiencing cannabis induced panic attacks first year of college and quit after the second time. People were annoying about it for a few years but as time went on I found that more and more people had the same experience I did. MM is great but I think the recreational and unprescribed "benefits" are exaggerated. It's a shame we don't have more data.

Do/were you guys regularly taking fish oil supplements?

I'm curious to know why you asked this?

I did shallow search and found this: "No interactions were found between cannabis and Fish Oil. This does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult your healthcare provider."

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/cannabis-with-fish-o...

I used for 10 years. Some weeks I would use daily, most weeks I would use a few times, many weeks I wouldn't use at all. Always in small amounts, and only before bed. During that time, I was able to make and keep close friends, work hard in a very successful career, and meet my wonderful wife. I kept my usage a secret, except to my closest friends.

I quit because I stopped enjoying it. It eventually made me feel stupid and lazy, rather than creative and relaxed. The more I used, the more found myself getting confused or distracted at work. I felt duller. Seemingly profound ideas I had under the influence seemed ridiculous the next day. I would also feel very emotional when under the influence, with little explanation. I realized that spending so much time in this weird state was potentially detrimental to my mental health and would eventually lead to making poor judgements in consequential situations.

While it's impossible to know in hindsight the extent to which my self-medication was helpful or harmful, I'm inclined to believe it was mostly a weight around my neck for all those years. I turned out okay, but I wish I had exercised more self-control. I don't miss it at all.

Because I realised that the marketing about it being mostly harmless and the happy go lucky attitude towards it is wrong.

It was having very real, very serious negative impacts on my health.

It's an addictive drug with negative health implications and a withdrawal syndrome.

Negative effects: lung dysfunction, brain dysfunction, poor sleep/REM suppression, inability to remember what "normal" is when you're high and a lack of awareness of the negative effects until discontinuation.

Withdrawal syndrome: low mood/depression/irritability, insomnia, lack of appetite, brain fog/slowed thinking.

Additionally research has now shown that chronic daily use leads to permanent brain damage in the form of reduced reasoning ability.

It's a parasitic plant that diverts your motivation towards its own preservation and propagation. You fall in love with it while it takes away your ability to realise what's happening.

Can you link some sources? I'd like to research this more

Looking at the parents past comments, they seem oddly biased. Lots of comments on drugs. And even recently "gave up all tech except HN" which is also rather weird.

I stopped smoking because of the impact it has on lung tissue.

I instead now consume edibles, and although the high is different its still similar enough that I get the same benefits.

I do consume Sativa exclusively and recreationally.

I have ADHD and have noticed that certain symptoms of my ADHD are worse when under the influence of THC. That being said, ingesting small doses is great - the half-life is the same regardless of dose, so the effect lasts a good amount of time. Just for context I tend to consume 2.5mg of THC most of the time, and just to clarify once again, I exclusively consume Sativa, not Indica, not hybrids.

I make $700K USD a year base salary, not including other aspects of compensation. Probably over $1M with everything else. I've been working in the software industry full time since 2016. I never consume THC when I need to work, exclusively on off-days and typically during a hike or when I have time to think.

This is a throwaway since I don't really want my drug ingestion to be publicly known while there is prohibition in place. That being said I do think drugs have had a major positive impact on my life.

I quit smoking pot when it started interfering with my work. Not in a “I’m gonna get fired if I carry on smoking” way. But I was finding it if harder and harder to get in the same coding mindset when stoned and when I was sober, which lead to me rewriting code because it was like two different people were working on the same bit of code at the same time.

I was a heavy smoker back then (would roll two joints at the end of the night, one before I slept and one to “wake and bake” with) and just knocked it on the head.

I will still have a joint on special occasions (basically when I’ve been out with friends who still smoke) but I treat those times like a night of heavy drinking and try to make sure I’m not planning to work the next day as I’m not normally in the mood to code the next day being a “very very light smoker” these days I find it hits me harder these days then it used too, but that could also just be age :-p

Your situation sounds similar to mine! I used to smoke pot everyday from morning to evening and code throughout. When I first started it went alright, but after about a year I started to see negative side effects. I felt like I couldn't come up with 'smart' code anymore and often felt unmotivated. I tried to stop on my own but it was next to impossible. I've moved back home to live with family and have them keep an eye on me. I would still smoke a bit during the evenings but being sober now throughout the day and coding is such a blessing. I can actually think!

I support decriminalization, but I'm completely against its use. It makes you less intelligent, both in the short term and long term. I've experienced it myself and seen close friends get lost in a haze of confusion, drop out of college, and mess up their lives. It's especially dangerous for teenagers and college students, which seem to be the main demographic that uses it.

I dropped out of gymnasium and spent 2 years doing nothing and enjoying life with 14 or 15. Mostly smoking weed and taking other drugs. I am sure most people from then believe I live on the street by now.

Some years later I finished school, got a diploma, worked a few years and now I am self employed and have more free time than anyone else I know. I love the job I created for myself and I contribute this in parts to being a little rebel. Pretty sure my IQ has not dropped yet either

All while still taking drugs.

IMO the factors you mention are environmental and not directly related to drug use.

Sorry but I can't say I agree. Cannabis has a noticeable effect on intelligence and cognition. This is scientific fact.

It has nothing to do with succeeding economically or getting a good job. That is a separate thing from "being intelligent."

I did IQ tests at 16 and 28 and had pretty much the same result. And that's IQ my social intelligence definitely got better, given that I am a slightly autistic anti social to begin with.

The only recent study I find that mentions a lower IQ explicitly talks about teenager use and that it has non or little effect on grown up brains in terms of intelligence

However we are going even more offtopic here. We can agree to not agree :)

The first google result:

> January 28, 2021

> Frequent cannabis use by young people linked to decline in IQ

> A study has found that adolescents who frequently use cannabis may experience a decline in Intelligence Quotient (IQ) over time. The findings of the research provide further insight into the harmful neurological and cognitive effects of frequent cannabis use on young people.

> "Previous research tells us that young people who use cannabis frequently have worse outcomes in life than their peers and are at increased risk for serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Loss of IQ points early in life could have significant effects on performance in school and college and later employment prospects," commented senior author on the paper Professor Mary Cannon, Professor of Psychiatric Epidemiology and Youth Mental Health, RCSI.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/01/210128134755.h...

This is not really something one can "agree to disagree" about, unless you wish to dispense of the entire scientific method.

Did you just agree that it does usually not affect adults?

Just to clearify, I, and I think most cannabis smokers, by now know that it was stupid to start young. But these studies do not imply a healthy adult loosing IQ points somehow by smoking weed

Is that what I wrote? No.

The evidence shows that users of cannabis that began as teenagers have negative IQ consequences as adults.

> But these studies do not imply a healthy adult loosing IQ points somehow by smoking weed

It's unclear if starting as an adult has the same effect.

If it's unclear or you have any reason to suggest it, why would you link a study that only looked into teenagers then?

I am done with this convo, and happily will read into his later, but so far I have no idea where you are getting this idea from.

It doesn't seem like a stretch to me to suggest that the same (heavily documented and confirmed) effects apply to first-time adult users. Certainly alcohol use affects teenagers' brains more than adults, yet still does affect adults. This seems like common sense. Most substances behave this way.

Likewise, the studies all track teenagers over decades, who then became adults. This is the most common usage pattern.

Now it's common sense and whatnot without any scientific study backing it. Mkey. Because most substances behave this way and alcohol and weed has so much in common. Obviously

Dude stop

This took me 30 seconds to find.

Blest-Hopley et al. [21] showed that both adolescent and adult cannabis users exhibited deficits compared to controls but in different brain areas, suggesting age-related risks at both developmental periods [21]. Additionally, Scott et al. [19] found small but significant effect sizes for the relationship between heavy cannabis use and cognition in both adolescents and young adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6394430/

I really don't know what you are trying to argue for, other than to just have your already-existing opinions validated.

You are arguing that for people that only use cannabis first as an adult, it has no negative effect? Because it is quite clear that usage as a teenager has negative IQ effects later on.

Took me 30 seconds to find this

https://www.pnas.org/content/113/5/E500

> Among twin pairs discordant for marijuana use, we assessed intelligence quotient (IQ) score changes while adjusting for the effects of genetic influences and other factors shared by members of the same twin pair. Results suggest that familial confounds underlie the association between adolescent marijuana use and declining IQ scores

So we are back to my initial suggestion that it's environmental related more than anything.

Yes I do have an opinion, because I think saying shit like 'just like with alcohol' when we talk about cannabis, or generally suggesting that cannabis leads to a school dropouts and what not are old ideas that should not be so present in a modern, scientific, society

Edit:// adding the conclusion

> In the largest longitudinal examination of marijuana use and IQ change, using two samples to replicate results and a genetically informative design, we find little evidence to suggest that adolescent marijuana use has a direct effect on intellectual decline. Although marijuana users showed greater decline than nonusers in areas of Gc, the presence of baseline differences before marijuana involvement, the lack of a dose–response relationship, and an absence of meaningful differences between discordant siblings lead us to conclude that the deficits observed in marijuana users are attributable to confounding factors that influence both substance initiation and IQ rather than a neurotoxic effect of marijuana.

> environmental related more than anything.

It is likely both... that's usually what happens. This study also stopped tracking the twins at age 20, which is far younger than most other studies.

Although our study evaluated a subset of subjects who had been daily users over the course of 6 mo to a year, all participants were still young adults at their last assessment. Perhaps regular use over a more prolonged period would result in greater differentiation across groups. This is a possible explanation for the discrepancy of our findings from those of Meier et al. (23), whose subjects were aged 38 y at their last assessment. We additionally were not able to differentiate current heavy users from former heavy users, and thus our results cannot disentangle the acute from nonacute effects of marijuana use on intellectual functioning.

To me this makes the conclusions pretty useless. They are still adolescents, not adults. They haven't used cannabis over a long period of time, which seems to be the real determining factor.

> cannabis leads to a school dropouts

Yeah, well that's my personal experience. I watched it happen in my own life. If that's not good enough for your "modern, scientific, society", why bother making this topic? I thought you wanted personal experiences.

It is a huge stretch. I'm sure there have been studies with adults why not reference them.

These are fair points to bring up and discuss, however:

1. Correlation vs. causation is unclear. Is the decline in IQ due to the smoking, or did smoking coincide or even result from other life factors that impact neurological development? Drug use is common among those with certain psychological illnesses, but it may be a coping mechanism as opposed to the cause, or otherwise differently related than what you are suggesting.

2. IQ testing is not a robust measure of intelligence or capability. There are plenty of fantastic criticisms explaining the problems with IQ testing being used in academia. At best, IQ scores are simply a measure of how well subjects perform with the spatial reasoning logical processing methods used in IQ tests, and not wholly representative of the intelligence or capability of the subject.

Thanks for asking. I smoked or vaped basically every day for the last 15 years. Also I don't know if your username is an intentional pun or not but I appreciate it.

A few months ago, I had a come to Jesus moment with alcohol and decided to stop drinking.

A few months after that, I realized that I didn't just have an addiction to alcohol, I also had an addiction to cannabis. And in fact, I just have an addictive personality, and wanted to be free from my addictions, and free to make my own decisions.

If you really cannot go without it, you might ask yourself if that's something you want for yourself. I mean I couldn't travel to half the countries in the world because I couldn't imagine being somewhere, where I couldn't pick up.

I've only been clean for a week so far. But the mental changes in this short amount of time have been astounding. I feel as mentally awake as I was in high school before I went down this road. I actually enjoy playing video games even more now.

Robert Anton Wilson used to write about how drugs are reality tunnels that filter your perception of the world. Well, being clean is its own reality tunnel, especially after living ni a different one for so long. It is a real trip.

edit: I have to thank NA for getting me here. It's an amazing program if you can find a good group.

> I mean I couldn't travel to half the countries in the world because I couldn't imagine being somewhere, where I couldn't pick up.

That's another level :) I travelled a lot and only smoke when the laws make it somewhat ok. It's just at home doing nothing where I have hard time seeing myself without.

Congratulations on your success, sounds as if you realized what you don't like about your life and actually changed it. That's bigger than it may sounds! Kudos

Edit:// btw no pun. Herbst is just German for fall. But it could be that my love for the herb influenced my name decision back then. But I like fall too

Vielen Dank, I really only shared that because I wondered if it would resonate with others here.

Another BIG thing that made me stop, at least for the foreseeable future: I was having spasms in my neck, basically on my carotid artery, every time I used. I felt like I was about to have a stroke half the time, and I also felt a little powerless to stop it.

I am really happy that you are in control of your usage. It's a scary place to be when you can't control your own life.

I am sure it resonates with people here, this thread gathered more interest than I assumed.

That spasm sounds horrifying. Glad you stopped, sounds like your body really wanted you to.

Also i would not say I have good control, I am maybe just lucky of having a not very addictive personality.

The very fact that you made this post and are willing to be vulnerable enough with yourself to ask these questions is a awesome. Keep examining yourself. Nobody is perfect.

Just know that people will love you and support you 100% of the way if you ever decide to stop using for a while, and it is way easier than you might think.. but you can't do it alone.

You are a very smart person. I wonder how smart the parallel universe version of yourself who never tokes is. They're probably a real force of nature. At least, that's what I wonder about myself sometimes. Truly, a highdea.

I love your mental image of our parallel selfs. No worries I have all the support I could get whatever I go for! My partner is doing a break, so I thought I try too so I am sober for a few days now actually. Sure miss it, but mostly because I relax on the couch all day because the weather is really bad, otherwise it's not too hard (for me)

Today I just wondered why and figured I'll get some inputs from a crowd i value.

It just stopped being fun.

It went from being a mostly euphoric, relaxing and sensory-enhancing experience in my teens and early 20’s to one mainly characterized by anxiety and paranoia.

Totally get you. This is the main reason I stopped;

I hear this a lot. And experienced it personally, but not always.

I'm also way healthier than most. My suspicion is that this happens later in life (or substantial users faster) because of a depletion of various enzymes used to metabolize specifically THC.

The best recommendation I have is to make sure you are getting enough omegas. There are undoubtedly other nutrients at play, but that's all I know that will help.

You can't smoke anywhere. What's the point of it being legal if almost every place has no-smoking policies, and now (in CA) they're adding explicit rules for cannabis. Unlike tobacco, you can't go to some corner or park and smoke. It's not allowed anywhere,

I had to stop because the best way to smoke, is to do it often in small amounts, but this inevitably creates a lingering smell. This is understandable but there are no alternatives to go outside either. On top of this, the stigma is still there, and non-smokers despise smokers and can't stand even smelling a particle in the air without making strange faces and throwing dirty looks.

I still have hopes it becomes like coffee, because if done properly, it stimulates productivity, it's just that most overdose (and have extreme low tolerance from non-frequent use), so they end up thinking weed makes you lazy and puts you to sleep, which is not the case if you know what you are doing.

This sounds weird to me. It's illegal here in Switzerland but smoking in public is the most normal thing ever, nobody bothers. Should they catch you it's $100 flat or nothing, no entries in your criminal history either.

Since CBD is legal and common we also smoke THC strains in caffees, clubs, restaurants and wherever else smoking is allowed.

Otherwise agreed, the lazy stigma is living on (and not completely wrong)

It sounds like you need to be discrete / careful in public, which makes sense if it's illegal. In California, it's legal, but in city areas it's usually not allowed outside or inside, and when you rent, most places will say no smoking of any kind inside. The only way I can think of where I could smoke "in peace" would be to buy a house and smoke inside or a patio, if far enough from the dense cities.

Well many are discrete, many are not. If you go to any park near some water in the summer you smell it everywhere and police doesn't bother. Last time I had to pay was smoking in a train station, which is stupid.

It never before occured to me that legal does not mean it's easy

I didn’t realize there still were countries where smoking in clubs and restaurants was still legal!

It's complicated. Generally it's not, we have a few places/clubs that don't care and most restaurants still allow it outside, where most seats are anyway (if the weather fits)

The US is one of them, in some places.

when I worked in Zurich, I purposely hung out in the "bad" neighbourhood. Always more fun than the "business district." Didn't even smell pot anywhere. I was quite surprised.

Where I live, if there is a bar around, you'll smell pot outside. Wherever people congregate with smoke, there you will also find joints. This has been the case even well before we federally legalized it.

I don't really know about Zurich, you may realized it is somewhat different to the rest of the country :) in Bern, Thun, Interlaken,.. it's way more common

> What's the point of it being legal if almost every place has no-smoking policies

I want it to be legal so I can buy it whenever I want even if I smoke in my own home 99% of the time.

It’s one of those things where you can probably just use your better judgment and nobody will care. I mean people smoke crack on public transit here. Who cares if you find some secluded corner of a park and light up? I see people breaking the “15 ft from entrance” smoking rule with cigarettes all the time.

Anyway if the smoke is really a concern look into making your own edibles (way cheaper than buying them) or vaping. If you only want to smoke small amounts then a flower vape is the way to go. If that’s too slow for you then vape oil.

Have you used a Pax for loose leaf vaporization? I use it in malls, when they're dead.

Yeah, leaf vapes are alright but make me cough a lot more for some reason.

Yup. When they get too hot, they are absolutely unbearable. I'm sure that wrecks your lungs more than the raunchiest tobacco ever would. It doesn't even taste or smell good then.

I smoked quite a lot in my 20s and used cannabis as a tool for inspiration. However, I found it is not beneficial from a long-run perspective. My panic attacks during the trips become more regular and after several experiments with amounts, including microdosing, I reduced my cannabis intake to 2 times per year. That is the most optimal for me to not go down into addiction and still change a take a look differently at the things sometimes. I live in Sweden and it's a legal hell for those who open for experiments with substances. Even usage is illegal and it surplus more stress to the experience. Nowadays I don't use simulators a lot but insist on decriminalization of personal usage and regulation of dealing.

What are “simulators” in this context?

*stimulants

I learned and got better at meditation which helps me alleviate symptoms I used to smoke for, depression and anger.

Meanwhile, weed would irritate my throat. Also, my dreams are much more vivid and accessible now, while when I smoked I would rarely remember them at all.

Do you know of any good mediations guides? Or in other words, what resources did/do you use to get started?

I've looked into the practice before, but there are so many guides, methods, styles, forms, etc..

I just can't seem to find a consistent source that works for me.

One of my first guides was a book called Wherever You Go, There You Are.

I learned how to do breath focus meditation and started practicing it several times per day for about a minute at a time, whenever I caught myself annoyed or waiting.

This is like the 5-pound weights of meditation that helped me learn to control my attention.

From there, I looked for more books, guides, and teachers, and tried to learn something from each one. I've heard it said that a good teacher can teach any student, and a good student can learn from any teacher, and I've tried to be the latter.

Just like physical exercise, meditation is a practice, not a knowledge.

Thanks for the book recommendation. There is a lot of compassion and positivity in this thread.

The weird thing about the dreams is they came back like Instantly when you stop, and for me they are by far the worst part of the withdrawal. Sadly it stops for me after a short while and I do not remember more than when smoking. So like 1 dream a week maybe.

Kudos on the mediation, that's something I should definitely pick up again, either way.

I've used cannabis for close to 50 years, starting when I was about 12 years old. For me it's been helpful in reducing stress caused by other's bullshit, and I have been subjected to far too much of that most all my life.

Over those years I've had friends and family give me a shit ton of guff about it. One of the things I've heard a lot is "it makes you stupid" but I was always pretty far ahead of most of my classmates in school and I taught myself how to code in the 90s and have been doing that since.

In the 80s I took a lot of heat over using cannibis, and most of it came from cocaine and alcohol users. According to drinkers I was a "drug user" and they were not. The coke users kept going with the "it makes you stupid" insult, and they loved that insult.

For most of those years I was committing a crime and risking getting fired from a job and tossed into prison if I got caught possessing it, but I could've been whiskey drunk at home from Friday after work to Sunday night and never have had to worry about that. I could've been on any prescription drugs a doctor signed off on and abusing the shit out of them and not had to worry about that. And I've known a lot of people that have been.

All of that is meant to add perspective when I say that after 50 years of experience in observing this issue I believe more than anything else it is societal pressure that causes the anxiety associated with usage. The characterization of the "dumb" and "lazy" pot smoker is still how we envision users.

We might like to think we don't respond to that, but most people do because it is so deeply entrenched in us.

I quit because, among other reasons, cannabis causes me to experience major anxiety (AKA “paranoia”). I’m surprised more people don’t complain of this side effect.

I also suffer from Bipolar II, and cannabis was a contributing factor to an episode of hypomania with extremely life-damaging effects.

Some In this thread do, you surely aren't alone with that.

I know only very few people who had this, and I only ever experienced it myself when I got to strong or not washed (fertilizer) cannabis. I wonder if it has to do more with the strains than THC itself.

But then again afaik bipolar are within those having the biggest risk for mental issues from THC.

In my case, I experienced high anxiety no matter what strain I smoked, and I smoked a wide variety of different strains.

Curious if edible vs. smoking makes a difference with this?

I was under the impression (having zero experience) that edible was less likely to incur negative side-effects due to something, something, smoking unlocks more bad something, something. (Quite possibly read that in some alarmist something, something.)

Were you supplementing omegas at the time?

High THC sativas consistently cause paranoia. Just like heavy indicas consistently cause the munchies.

The paranoia inducing effects can be very therapeutic, especially for people who suffer from paranoia and anxiety in general.

You can ask your doctor for a drug that allows you to increase or decrease paranoia at your leisure. He would probably look at you like you're insane before saying “No, I have no such drug.” But he does: marijuana.

But he wouldn't prescribe a drug that induces paranoia to cure paranoia, unless he's thinking desensitization.

This sounds counterintuitive, but that's how marijuana cured me of anxiety. I became desensitized to being paranoia while stoned, so desensitized that the “paranoia stopped making me paranoid”: “Oh! I'm just being paranoid! It's the weed.*

What surprised me was that this effect followed me whether I was stoned or not.

My anxiety got drastically better, cured almost, and it's because marijuana gave me control over paranoia by exposing me to it over and over and over, desensitizing me: Smoke a lot, really paranoid. Smoke a little, a little paranoid. Smoke nothing, not paranoid.

“Hey, Mom, look! I can turn the paranoia on or off whenever I want to! Now I'm in control, it doesn't control me.”

I essentially cured myself of paranoia by using marijuana as a paranoia desensitization tool.

And you absolutely can desensitize yourself to marijuana's paranoia inducing effects. You do become accustomed to the experience, and it won't bother nearly as much as it might have before.

You can also be very selective about the strains you consume. Heavy sativas induce paranoia as consistently as heavy indicas induce the munchies.

I was smoking relatively heavily in my early twenties (at least once a day) but drastically reduced my use when I started being serious about work. I felt like I was less sharp.

Then I had a brain infection that took years to heal(still working on the aftermath). I had heavy neurological symptoms and weed made it so much worse, so I completely stopped. The infection kinda traumatized me and the symptoms were not so far from cannabis consumption : brain fog, memory loss, problem with diction and focus, vertigo and nausea... So now I have absolutely no intention of smoking again since it will remind me of when I was at the worst.

I don't regret the years I smoked tho, I laughed so much with my friends. I'm just glad this is behind me.

How did your brain infection occur, if you don’t mind me asking?

Lyme disease, although I can't pinpoint the moment I got infected

I went from smoking daily in my early 20s, slowing down then finally completely stopping by 30. It wasn't even a conscious decision either, it just happened. When cannabis was legalized here I went to the store and bought some for the whole "its legal now, yay!" experience. I smoked a bit but never finished it. The best way I can describe it is: I have the same feelings towards smoking as how one feels when they are depressed about fun/social activities, only I'm not depressed, I'm just busy doing other things.

That sounds like the experience most people in my circle had.

I like your description, it contains a small hint on why i may am more depending on cannabis. I am all but busy, and right now am not ready to be, thanks to a burnout not to long ago i am still kinda recovering from. Thanks for this thought really, maybe i am just not there yet

I've quit keeping it on hand and won't buy more than can be consumed within a single day. The dose makes the poison. Nothing good comes out of being constantly stoned.

I’m really on the edge. I’ve smoked pretty regularly for the past 5 years. On the one hand, it helped me reduce anxiety and to be a more sociable person. I was on heavy medication for depression and anxiety, one essentially causing the other. It made me into a zombie. Marijuana allowed me to not only get out of bed, and do my job, but also leave the house and be a sociable person with others, and make strides to be more sociable in general.

I’m off the medication now, and I’m finding marijuana is pulling me really down. I want to stop, but the feelings of euphoria and happiness that marijuana creates, is a really hard thing to quit.

My wife on the other hand, is a high energy, ADHD software engineer. She uses it to calm her brain so she can sleep at night. I use it to stimulate my brain out of anxiety induced paralysis.

I wish I could quit. It’s expensive. I got excited because my state is undergoing changes in their law and I thought hey we could grow. But I’m worried about that dependency, and I would really prefer to live without it.

All that to say, I’m just not sure. It’s not as easy to swap one thing that gives you joy, with something else. I do think it is very dependency inducing, and addicting for heavy users.

I only quit when I notice I am smoking too often. My sweet spot is once a week to relax, listen to some music and take my mind off everything.

I also eat pretty clean most the week so eat a good meal the night I smoke. That hits the reset button for me.

I don't know how you would study such a thing but I can imagine it is not healthy to not have a reset button.

You can't hit the reset button everyday though or it will stop resetting.

Some days I feel like stuck in a boot loop. Guess that happens when you push the reset to often. Great analogy!

Yeah, from daily smoking in my 20s at home and with coworkers over a few years it eventually just wasn’t enjoyable anymore. I had a lot of anxiety and paranoia and was fairly antisocial by the end of a few years. It kind of just phased out own its own. I do drink a beer most evenings now in my 30s and that fits much better although I know isn’t healthy.

I quit because it gave me extreme panic attacks, and because I have PTSD from having a major health episode while stoned. I miss the headspace, it was easier to get into a creative flow and see things differently, but I was fed up with feeling like I'm dying while I waited for it to level out.

Yes. It was fun in my early 20’s when hanging out with friends, but at some point it just started making me very paranoid.

That said, everyone has a different experience. I know plenty of happy, productive people who smoke and plenty who don’t. I think it’s up to you to figure out what works for you.

Was going great, well integrated into daily and/or weekly life. Could go on fun binges and remind myself what too much was like every once in a while and have a silly 'nap day', then not do that again for a while.

Then, I had a kid. I'll probably pick it up again when the little knee biter is a bit more independent.

Overall I feel I made the right move in terms of drug of choice. Infinite LD-50, tame overdose curve, minimal withdrawal symptoms (heck sometimes I even forgot to smoke/vape/edible for weeks at a time). And thankfully I never got the anxiety or paranoia some complain about, much. All I needed to do was watch the dose, the set and setting.

10 year user. After a devastating diagnosis for a parent happened, it started to give me very intense anxiety when I used. It was almost immediately after the bad news and I haven't been able to go back to it even in small doses.

That sucks and sorry to hear that. I am sure you heard enough 'but' already but did you trying mixing it with CBD only strains?

That's literally black and white for my partner when she has her anxiety showing up again.

Yes. When I used cannabis I would be insensitive and make stupid mistakes. When I was withdrawing from it it would make my head hurt to listen to people. Neither was good for my character.

You are less insensitive now? I would not describe myself as sensitive, but i always assumed that's just me

Yes. To be fair though, the word "sensitive" has many meanings, some of which are contradictory to each other.

For instance I have (cannabis or not) high sensitivity to sounds, lights, art, things like that. (e.g. I can start telling you about "three sided cards" w/o trying to ham it up and have tears well in my eyes)

Any time when the volume of a P.A. system is in question I will want it softer than anybody else in the room which other people might see as "insensitive" to their needs. It is one reason why I haven't done sound work for live music for years even though I can sling an XLR cable as well as anybody else.

The "insensitive" I was talking about in the prior post is small mistakes that make "subtractions from the emotional bank account" that my wife perceives at an unconscious level but won't confront me about or will minimize at a verbal level, but have a real impact on the relationship in a long term. I am pretty sure other people would be affected similarly but I don't have the long history of observation to convince myself of it.

Yeah. Quit for the sake of not doing any psychoactive substances (including caffeine) for a couple of months, but I've never been a regular smoker anyways.

I do this regularly to generally detox.

Coffee detox is fully worth it. Afaik most people just need about 1-2 days every 2 weeks or so to keep a optimal coffeine intake.

For cannabis however it takes weeks, it's not something I do as often as I probably should

There have been studies of it influencing testosterone in men. My levels have never been very high (around middle of the range) and now as I'm >40 I try to limit things that negatively influence the levels. Here's one study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5660879/

Smoked almost daily for about 12 years. Ran out, didn’t feel like going out in a blizzard to get more. Was snowed in for about a week. The detox was nice, didn’t buy more. I have some now and one or twice a week I’ll do a one hitter, but I use to smoke multiple times a day, and the effect of severely reducing my intake had a really positive effect on my anxiety and depression

Corona did this to me. With all the mental stress I did not even miss it for a few months. Until I did and went back to normal.

Glad it helped you! And interesting to hear that stopping isn't the only way too ;)

I started vaping in my almost 30s to cope with depression and insomnia induced by living with tiny crying adorable babies and no family support whatsoever.

It worked great as a way to relax, enjoy some anime / movies / youtube and then fall asleep after everyone in the house quieted the f down. Your tastebuds on weed are an amazing experience as well. I also managed to vape with friends a few times, which was fun.

I got a vaporiser because I care about my health and didn't want to smoke paper. Very little smell, no effect on walls, easy to operate.

The only annoyance was having to use the black market to buy it which implies firing up tails, transferring bitcoins / monero, hoping the guy won't flat out scam you or that your package would be stopped. Basically the buying process wasn't stress free, so after a couple of years I just decided I wouldn't buy it anymore. The high stress points was also on the way down so I was a bit more relaxed.

I still vape if I'm somewhere where it's legal and I would definitely vape every once and then if it were legal in my country.

After a couple of years of almost daily use I stopped cold turkey and nothing happened. I was worried I would have problems with falling asleep but that didn't happen.

After 2 more years I started being stressed again (for work reasons) and I had trouble with sleep again. I self cured it with a beer every once and then (which is as much a depressant as weed). I'm not happy about the extra calories and I'm not happy about how mild and less relaxing it is - but it's easier to buy than weed.

Because it’s really hurting your brain, your mood, your life.

Though it’s hard to notice from inside, because pot takes also your focus (as opposed to cigarettes or other drugs) and critical thinking away.

Despite all that bullshit, marketing world is trying to sell you.

Ive checked myself - it is as harmful and as addictive as any other popular drug like tobacco etc.

You mentioned that cannabis helped or helps with your migraines. Can you elaborate a bit on this? How did you figure out which strains help (and which specific ones), dosage, flower, edibles, etc .. Does it help as a preventative, or an abortive? Does the efficacy wane over time, forcing you to up the dosage?

I don't think the strain is that important, all I know is that legal CBD weed doesn't work that way. So it likely is the THC high, to strong is not good either tho.

It somehow just smoothes everything down and makes me less sensitive to sound and light.

It's not solving the pain, but it allows me to stand up and get a glass of water and a painkiller.

Also it makes my auras more bearable that sometimes knock me out for a day or two after the fact.

Edit:// something that actually helps me is micro dosing mushrooms. If my aura shows up and I notice I can almost always avoid the migraine attack. Micro dosing LSD works too, but I usually still get a headache.

I sound like I have a drug problem maybe, but I tried many things before I said fuck it and growed some shrooms I only use for my migraines

Thanks for the info. That correlates with what I have read. CBD on its own doesn't help, need a balance between CBD and THC.

I haven't heard about using mushrooms for migraine, sounds interesting. How much do you actually take? Does it effect your ability to be productive?

Not at all. If anything it makes me more productive and a little over enthusiastic if taken a bit to much. But it's far from making one high and also effective on low dosages (I like the euphoric state tho)

I don't know the exact dosage, also because all shrooms are different. I take about 1/20 to 1/10 of the recommended dosage for a small trip (as sites like erowid describe it) that's ~0.25g for mine (dried golden teacher).

My current favourite is some which I put in honey for a few months and then dissolved in a bottle of gin, and filtered the mushies out. My magic honey gin :) appearantly it's not really stable in Alkohol but its still as effective as it was a year ago, plus the sugar and Alkohol make it work super fast.

Honestly I can only recommend to try it, it's such a freeing feeling to know you have an escape plan for the worst days. Also if you go for growing them yourself this is super interesting and not as hard as some make it to be (pf-tek)

I appreciate the info. I'm glad you found a way to deal with your migraines. Cheers.

I couldn’t find strains that reliably gave me a body high (I have near constant pain) without giving me anxiety or doping me up. I prefer microdosing psilocybin, and partaking in strong hallucinogenics in religious ceremonies every few months or so instead.

I was just recommending someone else in this thread psylos. Cannabis only lowers my migraines enough so I can stand up to get something better, and it helps with the aura before and after but the actual magic for my migraines are the shrooms (or painkillers if I have to)

I've quit smoking for long periods a couple times- when I worked for a boss who was so smart, I simply couldn't keep up (and even after I stopped it took 2 months to recover), and when I first had a kid.

I returned to smoking (well, vaping oils).

> when I worked for a boss who was so smart, I simply couldn't keep up

Omg yes, the feeling when you realize (or believe) its kinda your own fault you aren't in their place. This definitly also triggered a Impostor-Syndrom for me back when i found me in this situation.

Today i realize that being the best is not actually something i thrive for.

Yeah, I've suffered from imposter syndrome affected by cannabis for some time. However, eventually I succeeded at doing a bunch of stuff and now feel confident in my abilities, even when I vape. Honestly the only way I've been able to survive the work world so long is cannabis.

I feel you, i would never say cannabis did not hold me back at times in my life or made things more complicated.

I too had the luck that some of my projects eventually worked out and today i can live a lifestyle i actually enjoy. Which i assume is rare enough that i can't consider myself an imposter anymore. Even with cannabis :)

What strains are you using? Each one has a different effect. Some Lazy, some hyper active some hughly creative and some highly spacey.

If you are smoking just any weed you are getting some random effect that may or may not work for you.

Also, stop smoking if you want to avoid deadening yourself in any way.

Lighting shit on fire reduces your oxygenation.

Vaporize loose herb!

Not quite a answer: I don't smoke cannabis in the first place because it was hard enough to quit regular cigarette smoking. I don't want to do anything similar ever again.

I am not smoking cannabis for a week now without bigger issues, last time i tried quitting cigarettes i started to be completely unbearable within hours. I feel you.

But its a good example of something i rather should get rid. Sugar is high on that list too

Wrong. Nicotine and THC are two completely different substances which can not be compared like you do.

I was very addicted to THC and Nicotine when I used to smoke. I was able to quit both though.

I just don't smoke when I need to be productive. The idea that marijuana makes you unmotivated is not news to anyone. It's certainly no reason to stop entirely.

I don't smoke pot, but some of my coworkers did and they were always happy. Can anyone comment is this happiness is due to pot or they were just happier people.

Smoked daily for 4 years then moved to Germany. Weed is costly here approx 10 Euro per Gram.

Beer is cheap and you can buy good quality German beer for 1-1.5 Euro per 500ml bottle

It just got too hard with workplace drug testing - urine testing that tests for a metabolite, rather than the intoxicant, and can show +ve up to six weeks after.

I don't smoke at all. I cannot see how that is healthy for any part of pulmonary health.

Tabacco is particularly problematic though, esp the radioactivity.

I moved to a state where it’s illegal, can’t be arsed to find a dealer, and I tend to abuse it to the point of mental health issues. That said, I still think it’s a wondrous substance and will always rabidly support its legalization.

No. Nothing changed.

Everyone going on about lung disease when you can just vaporize it or use edibles. Edibles are tricky since you can either add too much or too little so you get an unexpected high.

Vaporizing doesn't produce harsh carcinogenic smoke and it's the best way to consume cannabis IMHO. By not combusting the plant material, you use less of it to get high and it's better bang for your buck. You can make 25g of hashish last 6 months if you want to.

Also you can smoke it twice (first vape, joint later) or do edibles later with the rest without the annoying baking first part.

My nicotine addiction surely is way worse for me than cannabis could ever be :3 I smoke way less tabacco tho if I only smoke joints.

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