A haunting new documentary about Anthony Bourdain
newyorker.com
newyorker.com
If ask me pretty disturbing the producers claim to know him and his mind so well that they're comfortable speaking for him.
It was supposedly an email he wrote[0], but I can still sympathize with your point : my voice/dialect/vocabulary in person are different than the ones I use 'online', i'd hate for someone to make the assumption that I would ever speak 1:1 with the way I type to people.
[0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-bourdain-documentary...
(I say 'apparently' because whilst one use for it was confirmed as reading an email, the producer seems to be refusing to clarify where the other deepfaked audio is.)
I can easily imagine that some people would have "ok/not ok" on either side of the "family permission" line though.
Publishing yet-unpublished works is another example that this is only a step out two away from.
I suppose our wills now will need to include statements about not allowing family/etc to do things like this, at least under our names.
IMHO it's not at all strange for the family (particularly the offspring) of the deceased to make decisions, including creative/artistic/editorial decisions, about how their loved one's work and life are used and portrayed.
He chose them because they were the ones most compatible with the other published works, because his father could never revise them. (Unlike The Hobbit, which as revised to make it more compatible with upcoming The Lord of the Rings.)
He was specifically chosen for the job by his father, who may not have agreed with the choices but was unequivocal that Christopher was the one to make them. Christopher himself has said that he'd change some decisions if he were to make them again, but that's true for any author.
To me, I'd just as soon The Silmarillion bear Chrisopher's name. Not as a matter of honor, but as a matter of clarity to fans who want to know what's "really" Tolkien.
What I do take issue with is doing this in a documentary.
People might be led into thinking that he actually read those letters aloud.
It is weird, but they are using the AI generated voice to read actual emails, so they aren’t guessing what he might say.
Everything we know about how information is lost from face2face to text--why /s is a thing in the first place--should reinforce this. A deepfake is still a small fiction.
(edit for spelling)
Maybe I’m old-school but as a viewer I think I would prefer a narrator instead of a deepfake.
It’s a cool new spice on a crowded spice rack.
We could just dump corpses in an abyss and clean it up every so often, but we don't, for various reasons.
I'd read that as using normal audio out of context.
All documentaries lie. A lot, not just a little. Bourdain's shows were never an exact truth either.
It's a new interesting way to lie though, I guess it comes down to what were are ok being lied to about.
"We worked with four companies before settling on the best. We also had to figure out the best tone of Tony’s voice: His speaking voice versus his “narrator” voice, which itself changed dramatically of over the years. The narrator voice got very performative and sing-songy in the No Reservation years."
Watching the "noddy shots" being filmed was pretty hilarious though.
Totally different vibe.
This can happen on purpose or by accident. It happens in documentaries all the time, with actors reading primary sources. But, the difference is that using a facsimile of Bourdain's voice makes it seem like a legitimate historical record, and not the creation of the director, which is what it is.
It helps that I tend to work with classic texts, written with a minimum of commentary from the writer. Writers today tend to add a lot of extra stuff to their scripts telling me that they want the words to mean, and controlling every motion as if I were a puppet. Personally, I find that less interesting.
They aren't making up words though, they're "merely" having an AI read words we know he wrote. Is that ethical? I'm not sure. Neither is the filmmaker:
> Neville said. “We can have a documentary-ethics panel about it later.”
I'm comfortable saying it's not disingenuous though.
The only benefit to concealing this important detail is generating controversy and getting his film talked about. This is a very selfish move by the filmmaker.
I don't disagree but I think he's genuinely saying at some point he wants to have that documentary ethics panel.
I think it's far more interesting to wait a bit (after it's out on streaming/blu-ray/etc) and see if anyone can figure it out. I think he's actually INVITING that kind of discussion and analysis by giving everyone exactly the information they would need to do so.
A) here's a voiceover which was done by AI B) obviously here's a lot of legitimate samples C) here's how I did it D) there are two other fakes, go find them.
I think it's a really good discussion to have.
In layman terms, it is where you "get your energy from". For introverts they spend energy when they have to interact with lots of people and be the "center of attention". But it doesn't mean they don't like it. Or that it's bad for them. It just means they have to go and be by themselves after to recuperate.
I actually really like most people. But I like them one on one when I can have a real conversation. I hate party chit chat because I'm terrible at it.
I have a couple friends whom I'd call extreme extroverts. One big difference between them and me is if they try to initiate talking to a stranger (at say a bar or some other reasonable location) and get rebuffed or otherwise have a bad experience, they instantly forgot about it and move on - whereas I'm still thinking about it years later.
So yeah maybe introversion is just social anxiety.
It's very common for introverts to still need time away from people they otherwise love.
I was responding to this comment, which seemed to imply that introverts don't have a problem spending time with people they like. Or, at least, they don't have a problem with it any more than non-introverts.
I'm saying that's not the case (but it's possible I misunderstood what you were saying to begin with).
Some people really do get stressed out with too much human interaction, just like there are people who suffer when they don’t get enough. And there’s a whole spectrum in between and going in various other directions.
E-spells
If you forget the test and just consider the ideas, it's useful
[1] https://www.psychologistworld.com/influence-personality/extr...
After all the only information about a person that we get is from what we see and hear. It's healthier to expect and notice that a celebrity is not the same when not performing.
One example where some people have difficulty realising that celebrities are not normal is when the celebrities play The Bad Guy and people encounter them in the street and get negative responses. Whereas if they usually played The Good Guy then any equally as false positive reactions could be attributed to their normal character.
Another example from last millennia which is similar would be fans of authors expecting their idols to be erudite dinner guests, founts of wisdom, or the swashbuckling hero of their work. The author would have to point out that their novel took 12 months to create and a further 6 months of editing and they were not the same person as the lead character and that they lived with their aunt and collected roses as a hobby.
I can't find the original source, but long ago in an interview Mike Myers (comedic actor, formerly of Saturday Night Live, and a string of over-the-top movies) described himself as a "situational extrovert". If you are aware of Mike's work, you might too be surprised to learn that he's an introvert.
Well, enough of why Bourdain killed himself. Bourdain was brilliant. He was witty, charming, but more importantly you genuinely knew that he cared about every single person he was sitting down and talking to. He always, always respected them and his audience and he never treated you as anything but a friend.
When the news came out about his death I was not surprised. I know what depression is like, the secret suffering (I don't want or need pity comment)s. You can be open and loving and happy on the outside but every hour wonder what's the point of helping people hurt other people, which is ultimately what most of us do. I mean, we couldn't all eat and travel like Bourdain without destroying the planet (worse) and you know he was self-aware to know that. He probablys aid it. Bourdain lived a very large life, he'd seen enough like Hemingway and Wallace and Bennington and...there's a pattern here but I'm sure I'm leaving lots of people out...had before him.
But the way the world reacted to his death. The absolute incomprehension, the continued downplaying of issues like depression even on "educated" places like HN, the conspiracy theories (happy people don't kill themselves - ergo child trafficking), the way we as people and societies bicker about the smallest and stupidest of things and will kill each other over it...I'm certain that's why Bourdain was the person he was, and I thank him for all he taught me and others.
A friend of mine used to live in a small town near another small town where one of the episodes of Ghost Hunters was filmed. That particular episode focused on an "old historic hotel built in the 1800's" and the frontier-era ghosts haunting it. It was a very compelling episode but I found out after watching it that the hotel had been built only a few years prior to the episode being filmed.
My personal opinion is that most of those shows are entirely scripted.
Practically all of them are. It is way more expensive to shoot compelling reality TV that's at all resembles what the term implies. Uncertainty about what you'll get, and capturing a real narrative taking way, way more time, means your productions costs are many times what they would be for something that's mostly scripted from scratch, or built out of (scripted) re-creations of things that already happened.
His death still worries me in a sense for my own life that I still want to do a ton with my life but I don't want to do quite everything. There needs to always be something to dream about, something needs to be left unfulfilled.
I can completely get for Bourdain that at the end there was no fix left. He had literally done everything in his life possible to do. What could he possibly dream about at the end? I am sure that is a much darker place then what it would seem on the surface. "Instead of killing myself, I can do anything so I should do X." He literally ran X dry.
Balance. Not to be flippant, and I also enjoy AB's work, but no one thing or set of things is never the answer to sustainable peace of mind.
Ironically, one thing that made AB's character so appealing was his balance of ex-junkie hardness and childlike wonder.
There's a great Velvet Underground song, I Found a Reason, with the lyric, 'Oh, I do believe / If you don't like things you leave / For some place you've never gone before.' That place isn't necessarily a 'place.' No one ever does everything. You will die with meat still left on the bone. Take comfort in that.
I was also depressed and addicted, then when I quit I met a woman who wasn't good for me. My feelings for her became another addiction. This article clarified for me the reason he killed himself. I can totally understand not wanting to go on living without the woman you love and need in a very intense way, and worse, a woman that torments you.
There's something here to unpack about audiences (humanity even?) if this is what networks devolve into. Looking at you History Channel
Flat earth, ancient aliens, and other conspiracy theories are in their mindshare.
YouTube was their medium.
I think you nailed it for the cable tv audience though.
You packed a lot of insight and wisdom into your comment.
Regarding secret suffering, I know someone who is so good at it that they make it easy to forget on a conscious level that they suffer from depression. It's insidious.
The past year or so has really illuminated the "it doesn't matter until it affects me personally mentality (or I don't understand it until it does)." Seems like that can be applied to depression. I posit lack of understanding about depression is exacerbated about our nascent understanding of how our minds even work. Combined this makes me think we, as a species, are not very educated about depression.
What do you think and/or what do you think we could do better so we don't continue to have an "absolute incomprehension, the continued downplaying of issues like depression"?
For me, personally, this is the first time in 15 years that I've felt normal, which is to say my entire adult life. Some of that is just growing up, but it took a few tries with psychologists (the second much more successful than the first), being cognizant of what issues put me in a funk and avoiding them, getting the appropriate medication (for depression this is invaluable - the main thing it does for me is make sure those valleys aren't so low) and then within the last year realizing that I might also be adhd (all this shit is comorbid) and seeing a pyschiatrist and getting on the proper meds for that. I know we've got our Scientologists and resident HNers that think the healthcare industry is just a joke, but my counselours have always been my friends, it's as much me guiding and us learning about what works and doesn't work as them, and you know, it's been life-changing. This last part is in response to your "we don't know" comment. We have no fucking clue on the brain works, which is why I'm even saying this. I see people that are ashamed to take medication or admit they have.
But the depression is never going to completely go away. Two books that have given me a lot of hope, taught me a lot are:
> https://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Melancholy-Depression-Challe...
> https://www.amazon.com/First-Rate-Madness-Uncovering-Between...
I'm sure someone's going to say that here's popsci, but I dunno, was good stuff for me. Great insights into mental disorders and how they can be worked around, even embraced. This is all feeling way too male...I guess a final thing that's been vital for me (and again, just getting older) is the power of empathy. I think there are a few shows like Mad Men or HaCF which really show a variety of people working through issues like this.
Gonna give the books a look, glad you found something that works for you!
I've often used the phrase "trying to outrun the fire" to myself.
Maybe that's what happened to him, maybe not, but either way that blog post hit me in the feels.
I wonder if that's the impression that he crafted for TV. I read his book Kitchen Confidential, and the thing that struck me about his characterization of restaurant kitchens is that he always seemed to be surrounded by terrible people.
He portrayed that as universal, which is not my experience in them. Some are bad; others are not. And I notice that the common factor in all of his bad experiences in kitchens is him.
Restaurant kitchens are, indeed, hot, unpleasant, fast-moving, and potentially dangerous places. They pay very badly for incredibly demanding, exhausting work. It does attract a certain kind of adrenaline junkie.
But it also attracts a lot of kind, compassionate people who just want to make food that people enjoy. They're not all about taking cocaine and drinking and quitting on no notice.
I'm glad he presented a more thoughtful version of himself on his TV show. I didn't like the person he presented in his book. I would like to think that the former is more true to him than the latter. But I can say that his death didn't come as a surprise to me, based on what I read in his writings.
I don't mean that to be cruel. His work touched you and I'm glad for that.
It had a lot more historical footage than contemporary interviews, I was expecting more contemporary interviews.
While the documentary does obviously discuss his suicide it doesn't really focus on it, something I was very grateful for. It's obviously present across the whole documentary, but, not in an overbearing way.
The documentary really pulled back the curtain and explained a lot about the history and production of his various shows and gave far more insight into who he was off camera.
The documentary also paints a very specific picture of why he killed himself. I don't want to "spoil" it, and perhaps i'm reading too much into it but it felt obvious to me.
Overall, really amazing documentary, definitely in my top few documentaries i've ever seen.
https://slate.com/culture/2021/07/roadrunner-anthony-bourdai...
The most important thing I learned from Bourdain shows is very simple and also very true:
When you visit a place that is unfamiliar to you, whether it's another city in your own country or someplace on another continent, go to the traditional food markets. That's where you can best encounter the culture and flavor (literal and figurative) of a place.
It's really good advice (modulo cautions about tap water and uncooked foods).
AB always acted as a humble guest anywhere he traveled and with whomever he was speaking with. It was always refreshing.
On the other hand, it sure does feel like likeness is better off in the public domain once you're dead. Because you're dead.
Safe travels AB, and thanks for all the people, places, food, culture you brought to me. I am better for it.
I know when people express positive things about me, all I can think of is why that’s wrong. I think I’ve manipulated people, albeit unintentionally, to believe I’m something I’m not. I believe they just haven’t figured me out yet. It makes me feel isolated and/or deceitful. It drives home this belief that even the people I love don’t really know me.
If I were in his position, the constant praise and love would annihilate me. Especially being in a position where my name is my brand and I’m actually intentionally producing content a certain way for people. Even if he was very genuine, or if I was for example, I couldn’t escape the thought that it was all a ruse and I was doing something wrong in order to have all these fans.
I don’t know. I don’t know a lot about him, but this is a significant component of the depression I experience and if I were in his position, it could very likely take me to very dark places.
I can't speak for Tony, but he fit the pattern of a highly intuitive person with sky-high expectations for himself. That's what made his journey so fascinating to me, anyway-- his constant pursuit of and personal and professional ideal that's always just out of reach.
“If I get hit by an ice cream truck and they’re peeling the bumper out of my head while I’m dying, I’m not going to wish that I had eaten more or traveled more or taken more drugs. I’m just going to regret how much I disappointed people in my life.”
Thank you for relating. I find it helpful to know I'm not alone, although it's saddening too to think others feel this way.
The problem with suicide is it eliminates all future good possibilities and it's likely that this is the only life.
I understand that suicide is hard on the people left behind, but I also understand that some people don’t want to continue to suffer to prevent others from suffering.
Suicide is a very hard step for people and although Futurama style suicide booths are a step way too far, there should be more humane avenues guided by medical professionals for people who are ‘done’.
Please if you do have suicidal thoughts, at least go to the doctor hand have a that about it, they can help you further.
If you watch some of his early shows, he was enchanted by the street food scene in Asia. But places like Bangkok and Shanghai cracked down hard on unlicensed street vendors over a decade ago, and the places that were lively environments in the mid-2000s have been gone for a long time.
Anecdotally, I tried to find street food in Shanghai and the only places were a few vendors next to the train station. I was told by the guide I hired that there really wasn’t much anymore and that western diets were all the rage among the under-40 crowd. In its place were sterile food courts with bright signs and cartoon mascots.
We see the beautiful end result of his work but I suspect much of it all was an endless grind he couldn’t get out from.
Didn't he have a wife?
What other jobs are named so brutally after the thing one does?
Very much looking forward to this documentary.
A Thatcher does thatching with his bundles of thatch. A Carter does carting with his horse and cart. But the poor sod who braises your partridge? Just “cook”, not “cooker”.
Somewhat less noble, I thought, and in keeping with Bourdain’s 1999 Kitchen Confidential essay of counter-glamour.
Kinda like Bones from Star Trek. Camaraderie through occupational diminutives.
the verb is the noun, no -er
You have it backwards. The verb cook was derived from the profession name