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Alan Turing in America

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My Dad shook the hand of Turing when Turing was working at Manchester University, after the war. Dad was a good-looking rugby player who was interested in logic - I don't think he understood (at least at the time) why Turing was interested in him! Later on his own security clearance as a V-bomber captain might have been compromised, so he only talked about it to the family.

So I have shaken the hand that shook the hand of Alan Turing. Which always makes me smile, and is my single claim to fame.

Is there more detail to the story, or could it have been simply a common interest in logic and the like? As a gay man I can assure you that we aren't attracted to every allegedly good-looking male.

(I really don't mean this to be snarky, but I know forum posts have a way of making it seem that way.)

Of course, neither I nor my (late, so I can't ask him) Dad knows what Turing's motivations were.

These are just my possibly incorrect assumptions, following later conversations.

V-force security checks were however a real thing when it came to homosexuality, and to certain extent heterosexuality - V-force liked nice, safe married couples with kids - but they certainly didn't always get them.

According to the biography on which the movie "The Imitation Game" was (very loosely) based ("Alan Turing: The Enigma"), Turing was rather direct when expressing interest in the men he knew. Much more so than I would expect for that time. There were several times where he straight up propositioned acquaintances. So it wouldn't entirely surprise me if there was an actual expression of interest in the original story.

Of course it's quite possible that's what Turing was doing in this case. I'm not saying it wasn't.

My gentle objection from long experience is that gay men's motivations are so very often over-sexualized by people who are not gay men. Without good situational evidence, it's not a good idea to make that assumption.

I can't agree more - it seems very disrespectful to imply that Turing was only/primarily interested in OP's father due to his sexual preferences. I think the over-sexualisation is quite evident if you simply consider changing the gender here - "Mother was a good-looking football player who was interested in logic - I don't think she understood (at least at the time) why Djikstra was interested in her!"

I am two handshakes removed both from John von Neumann and Alan Turing (via different people) and wish even 0.001% of their genius was thereby transmissible.

There are plenty of people still alive with handshake distances of 1 or 0, however, if we’re making a metric out of that.

None of the genius is transmissible, but perhaps some of the joy is.

Yes. It’s a nice anecdote to have :)

Shaking the hand of Tesla could be a hair raising experience!

Good writeup. Seems like it should also mention that he was banned from entering the US in 1952 after being convicted of having sex with a man. After reading his dislike for ship travel, I have to imagine that the cheaper air travel in the 1950s would have made a third visit more likely (if not for that criminal charge and his subsequent suicide).

Do you know if the ban was due to a blanket ban on anyone convicted of anything abroad or specific crimes?

I mean the second one is bad for someone just being gay but the first would seem to catch people convicted of political crimes in the likes of Spain during the fascist era or the Soviet Union.

On a slight side note to this, I remember as a kid one of the common things cops said to us about drugs besides health was, if you get convicted you can't go to the US anymore. Just a bit of a chuckle I had there of the threat of not being able to visit the us was bigger than threat of jail.

“Beyond the way they speak, there is only one (no two!) features of American life which I find really tiresome. The impossibility of getting a bath in the ordinary sense and their ideas on room temperature” — Alan Turing (1936)

I'm familiar with the difference in 'room temperature' between here and the UK, but not what the idea of 'getting a bath in the ordinary sense' is. Anyone know?

Showers rather than baths, perhaps?

I was thinking that originally, but in the 1930s?

I came to the comments because I'm not familiar with the difference in room temperature between the US and UK. Can someone fill me in?

Like most countries, the UK's idea of 'room temperature' in the winter is quite a bit cooler than the US'.

Funny, I found Asia (and especially Japan) to be the polar opposite. Japan in the winter is a place where everywhere you go is too warm.

This is such a fascinating insight. I didn't know this part of his story.

Turing was a complex character as most brilliant people are.

It saddens me what happened to him, but we must recognise that our children's children will be appalled at things we (collectively) stand by and approve of.

Why is that so? What are some examples that our grandchildren will be appalled at?

Perhaps the type of energy we consume (crude oil) or the type of food we eat (fast food) or the lack of sleep we get?

I'd love to know your thoughts.

> Why is that so?

This has always been so. Every generation has done something another generation later finds to be deplorable or barbaric. I would assume that we would not be exempt from this.

Oil, fast food and sleep however seem more benign, sort of like we look at the past and think, wow we have a much better way of doing this now.

For my part, I’d think of things like:

+The internal combustion engine

+Chemotherapy (which will hopefully seem shamefully primitive compared to future cancer treatments)

+American football, which is already starting to seem barbaric IMO

I don't see why chemotherapy is something future generations would be appalled by us approving off. It works and it saves lives and is the best we can manage. Most people don't see the saving of lives given the best means possible as something to be appalled about people doing. They may be appalled at the the fact the was no other option but not at the people who actually did it. It's like condemning a doctor in rural Africa for not using cutting edge medicine but only what they can scrounge up, no sane person would do so but would rather view them more favorably for persevering despite such limitations.

Yeah I don't think we look all that disfavorably on things like amputations to save someone's life if it's the only lifesaving option available on the spot (in the past or present).

Factory farming

Plastics pollution and fishing.

Depends how far ahead you want to look. National borders, the use of lethal weapons for self-defense or law-enforcement, the entire education system. It may not always be fair since the problems these things are meant to address may be mostly gone.

A very interesting perspective to me is how many things start out as improvements in society or quality-of-life, but end up viewed as the opposite after history progresses enough to take their benefits for granted and pick out flaws in them.

Doesn't mention his chance meeting with Lawrence Waterhouse.

"We rode bikes. His work was a lot more advanced. Einstein wouldn’t give me the time of day!"

Such an amazing book. I’m now listening to the audiobook version for the first time. Extremely well narrated by William Drufris. And my mind is blown all over again at all the things Stephenson brings together in this book. The characters are great. All the interactions are great. Lots of adventure. Good humor. Lots of learning. Surprises me his stories were never picked up for an HBO TV series. Maybe not enough violence.

Would love to find more books like that. It captured so many things so well.

I can strongly recommend the Baroque Cycle which is a set of prequels for Cryptonomicon set in the 17th and early 18th centuries and Fall; or, Dodge in Hell which, while not a direct sequel, shares at least on character and the Waterhouse family foundation.

NB The audiobook versions of all of these are really good.

Edit: Jack Shaftoe is probably one of my favourite fictional characters...

I've read the Baroque cycle. I meant more other authors. The reviews of Dodge in Hell were pretty bad - did you enjoy it?

Dodge in Hell was really, really bad. Some of the IRL stuff was fun or interesting, but the interminable virtual world storyline was just unreadable.

Well, I liked it, but I also liked the final part of Seveneves... :-)

Edit: I listened to the audiobook, which I think makes some books a bit more palatable.

I liked the final third of Seveneves. The first 2/3rds were just a big downer, and I don't need that. I have https://www.washingtonpost.com/ for that.

> The impossibility of getting a bath in the ordinary sense

What's the problem getting a bath in America in the 1930's vs the UK? I'm confused.

I cant find a definitive answer here but possibly showers maybe? I know they were popular in the US before the UK. Maybe not by that much though.

Or was the wipe down wash with hot water still the preferred method of bathing in the rooms at Princeton at the time?

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