The global threat from plastic pollution | Hacker News Reader

The global threat from plastic pollution

science.sciencemag.org

105 pointsdoener36 comments

Put a tax on plastic. That'll reduce its use, and provide funds for cleanup.

Yep. But why not incentivize on the other side of reclaiming plastic as well? Invest in better plastic recycling/reclamation (recognizing that current recycling efforts appear to be more theater in that regards).

Well, one of the big risks of plastics are the hormonal effects which are still little understood. There are serious reasons to remove most plastics from our day-to-day lives which makes reclaiming/recycling existing plastics less desirable - we should be removing them.

This is true. Just about everyone's pee has measurable BPA.. even AFTER we removed the BPA everywhere...

I was under the impression that phalates only linger in the body for a short while? Also - we definitely have not eliminated the use of BPA “everywhere”.

I keep thinking this is such small beans compared to global warming, it's hard to feel concerned about it. Even this article seems full of maybes with little major consequence. Am I missing something?

Plastics are petrochemicals, meaning they’re made by combining fossil fuels (usually fracked gas) with chemicals. Petrochemical plants are among the most polluting industries in terms of harmful air and water pollution, and greenhouse gases. In the US, most petrochemical plants are clustered in a low-income, largely Black area of Louisiana known as “Cancer Alley.” So from fracking, to chemical production, to petrochemical manufacturing, people and the environment are harmed—that’s not even counting the end of the plastics lifecycle, like ocean pollution and incineration.

The concern:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/plastics-plants-a...

An insider view of industry:

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/chemicals/our-insights/p...

My source: my wife is an environmental lawyer who is very concerned about climate change and works closely on these issues.

Is it possible that plastic pyrosis powered by renewable sources will one day be economical?

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIHJRIpLRk

This is an old video of a tabletop model. It runs at 1Kw/hr and takes ~3-4 hours to convert 1 kg of plastic into ~800ml of fuel.

The machine is really just a demonstration unit for their bigger models. I always wondered why don't we just use these machines in a scaled up manner with renewable sources to recover the fuel to be turned back into plastics. I'm assuming its just a cost issue.

You can power the process using a feedback loop where a small amount of the output gas (prior to condensing into liquid form) is used to heat the plastic. There's videos on YouTube of folks rigging up a system in the back yard with basic pipes and drums, and obtaining usable output liquid fuel. You just need enough initial energy input to reach the target temperature, after which it can self sustain.

The issue with plastic pyrolysis is it's turning fossil fuels sequestered in plastic form back into burnable fuels that end up in the atmosphere, further contributing to climate change. A better option is to sequester that plastic permanently back in the ground again. Even landfill, using this lens, is a better option.

Thats why I talked about using renewable energy. If we could have a closed loop system where the plastic is turned into oil and then turned back into plastic, we could minimize excess plastic waste + not use any more oil from the ground.

Solving the wrong problem IMO - Even if you reach 100% efficient reprocessing a portion of plastic enters the environment on each usage cycle, and this is the problem we urgently need to solve.

Switching out to materials which decompose harmlessly is a better option all round, even if the energy costs are higher.

Just because there is a bigger threat doesn't mean this isn't still a threat. And it's better to address an issue before it becomes insurmountable. Imagine if we'd taken global warming seriously 50 years ago. Who knows how bad the plastic problem will be in 50 years? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Phthalate's are "plasticizers" - chemicals added to make plastics durable, flexible, transparent (ie. like every single water bottle).

Its been increasingly shown that "Phthalates act by mimicking the female hormone estrogen, which in turn inhibits production of the male hormone testosterone. As such, phthalates are considered to be endocrine disruptors" [1]

In fact, Phthalates are one of the candidates to explain the significant drop in male sperm production [2].

The point here is its possible that the effects of plastics are much more significant than anyone realizes...how much of the LGBT / gender identity issues could be related to environmental toxins?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalate

[2] https://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2003/05000/Phthalat...

My local health authority has this summer mandated disposable masks for clients for certain indoor settings and it’s bothered me greatly because I’m used to the same bandanna mask and I recall we were told climate change was an emergency and plastic straws were banned.

I suspect it will only be 5-10 years until humanity finds itself face to face with the environmental disaster that is disposable masks, this stuff will be just everywhere.

Plastic pollution and climate change are orthogonal issues. The latter is much more immediate and serious. The former, we're not even sure how much of an issue is it.

No, rules that require the use of disposable plastic pollution on multiple levels (distribution and manufacturing) contribute towards climate change.

Reduce, reuse and recycle.

Not disposable masks to go inside!

Again: problem with plastic pollution isn't climate-related, it's about (hypothetical! [0]) food chain poisoning. Disposable plastics are just a tiny fraction of petrochemical industry's emissions.

[0] - That is, we know the compounds get into the food chain, but in most cases we don't know what, if any, negative impact it has on living things.

Still, almost impossible for a regular consumer to buy most foodstuff without plastic wrappings.

Among the uses of plastic, external packaging and disposable utensils have the benefit of at least being obvious. Not so with insides of aluminium cans, paper cups, receipts (I bet this one is even BPA still), cigarette filters, and so on. These mass uses of plastic are insidious in that they are generally entirely invisible to consumers, do not affect any corporate or political brand, and hence attract no attention.

One use that goes unnoticed is synthetic fabrics. Your polyesters, nylons, rayons, spandexes are all based on plastic.

You can actively see the micro-plastics being created: every time you wash and dry your clothes, plastic fibers are being shed from these clothes and ending up in waste water channels and landfills.

True to a degree. Still, I typically see tags listing fabric composition of clothing and am able to choose to wear e.g. near 100% cotton or wool. Also, at least a fabric is normally in use by the final consumer/wearer for some time.

The uses I listed are, sadly, completely hidden and are all in disposables.

Personally, I would not be opposed to a regulation that would mandate big red warning labels with plastic content breakdown on at least all of such disposable goods and accompanying paraphernalia that are not entirely void of plastic; or indeed a hefty “plastic tax”.

Sadly, none of the natural fibers have a high sun protection factor (SPF) whereas polyester often does.

Not only food, try buying a razor or floss that’s not wrapped in that annoying plastic package.

It’s not easy but can be done if you look closely. Here’s one I like for floss (there are other similar brands too) The Humble Co. Dental Floss (4pack) - Vegan, Eco Friendly, Sustainable Waxed Dental Floss with Natural Xylitol, 55 Yards of Adult and Kids Floss for Gum Care and Dental Care (Mint) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DCGMXVB/

There’s also a blog on the topic which I’ve come across from time to time https://myplasticfreelife.com/

Switch to double edge razors. My razors have zero plastic on them. All cardboard. You can get a lifetime supply for about $300 too. And I mean lifetime, until you die.

I'm also not convinced paper straws are going to be a sufficient replacement.

Drinking from a paper straw is unpleasant.

Then drink from the glass itself. Or with a pasta.

There are also a variety of reusable metal straws out there.

Albeit unlikely, I'd still prefer straws that are less threatening in cases of tripping while sipping or some other thing.

The dishwasher even appears to get them reasonably clean in home use (in case you're not inclined to wash them with the little brushes after each use).

Stop buying fish, most important thing you can do.

Can you expand upon that?

massive pollution in the form of discarded-at-sea plastic nets. incredibly destructive.

Pool floats with polystyrene in them are just pure evil.

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