We can now harvest usable lithium from seawater: study
interestingengineering.com
interestingengineering.com
Scientists develop ‘cheap and easy’ method to extract lithium from seawater - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27411631 - June 2021 (290 comments)
If we know how many kWh of electricity is used to get the Lithium, then we can compare that to how much energy the Lithium would be able to store and release over it's usable life. Some rough numbers in my head, the total weight of Lithium in the average 18650 battery is probably 25 grams (the other components being other metals like Cobalt).
This means that the 1kg of Lithium would be able to make about 40 or so 18650 batteries.
The average 18650 battery has an average watt hour capacity of 11 (a good one). So with 40 batteries you have 440wh of storage.
The average lifespan of the batteries would be about 1000 cycles... so 440kWh of capacity over the lifetime of the battery.
I will assume that the electricity rate they use for the $5 figure is a very cheap $0.10/kWh. Meaning that it would require 50kWh in the extraction process alone to extract enough lithium capable of storing 440kw over it's usable life.
I have no idea if this is a good return or not compared to how much energy is spent mining lithium.
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D1EE0...
"Based on these data, we estimated the total electricity required to enrich 1 kg lithium from seawater to 9000 ppm in five stages to be 76.34 kW h. Simultaneously, 0.87 kg H2 and 31.12 kg Cl2 were collected from the cathode and the anode, respectively. Taking the US electricity price of US$ 0.065 per kW h into consideration, the total electricity cost for this process is approximately US$ 5.0."
So, the electricity usage is even higher than you estimated, with an even lower cost per kWh. But that said, there are places in the US that have even cheaper electricity (especially if you're looking at industrial rates).
Here is an article describing electrowinning iron at 3.53kw/kg.
It's not completely meaningless, as it gives a sense of the operating costs, and dollars are easily turned into electricity and vice-versa.
Likewise, if power is a significant part of your operating expenses, probably shouldn't run it in the state with the most expensive electrical costs.
Though my point was more that the actual power consumption in KWh isn't essential to know for figuring out if this process is viable, just a ball park price base on some average industrial power prices is good enough.
I don't know for sure, but based on current lithium prices I highly doubt that current lithium extraction processes use less than 50 KWh per kg. That's a really small amount of energy for such a useful material.
Is this a good thing to due while reliant on coal? Probably not.
I wonder how many years until this is viable.
His team also aims to enter a collaboration with the glass industry, to develop the LLTO membrane at greater scales with affordable cost.
five dollars of electricity (to extract) 1kg of lithium
In other words, they have this working on a lab bench, and the cost estimates are pure speculation.
a copper cathode coated in ruthenium and platinum.
Ruthenium - US$25,000/kg.
Platinium - US$35,000/kg.
Anode cost not included in cost estimate.
This is going to turn on all the usual cost factors - how often do you have to replace the membrane and the anode, what about corrosion, does it need cleaning, etc. There's no question that this is possible, but a big question is whether it is cost effective.
Ruthenium… edit: ops NN.
Edit: Unless someone has a specific reason I'm wrong, I stand by this. A criticism that makes four good points and one bad point is worse than a criticism that just makes four good points. I don't see any reason to call out the electricity use specifically as "pure speculation". It's only part of the cost but it's not a made-up number, and it's not a number that should change significantly between the lab and the real world.
Pursuit of profits isn't at odds with addressing climate change, we just need to make it profitable.
Anyways, I expect this one is the latter. It seems the general method is to elecrolyze seawater with a special membrane (lithium lanthanum titanium oxide (LLTO)) and special electrodes (ruthenium and platinum) that only allows lithium ions but not other metals through. "Five dollars of electricity is needed per kilogram", hey that's pretty good. Not so good: did you notice the phrases "seawater", "special membrane", and "special electrodes" in the same sentence? Yeah, that means $$$$$. The quote on that little detail? "His team also aims to enter a collaboration with the glass industry, to develop the LLTO membrane at greater scales with affordable cost." Mhm.
But hey, I'm just an idiot that took a chemistry class way back when and my first paragraph was cast at this article unfairly. Maybe we'll be lucky and get one of those awesome HN moments where an expert in the field chimes in, otherwise I hope to see you in 5 years with another headline claiming that this tech was finally commercialized. And good luck to the team! Just don't hold your breath.
Because the headline "Incremental Progress, but Situation Mostly Normal" doesn't generate as much advertising revenue. I find it irritating too though.
The Moon landing would've been "It's official, we can now settle other planets" today :D
Like advertising, journalism is also plagued by Dark Patterns. The feedback loops in which journalists operate seems to encourage these patterns.
Because this (and 99% of everything else pushed) is not news.
It's entertainment designed with only one purpose - to keep your engagement. Whether it's clicks or eyeballs on a TV channel, or buying a newspaper or magazine, it's a huge game to grab and hold your attention for as long as possible.
Other than a few quality outlets (NPR in the US, CBC in Canada, BBC in UK, etc.), the "news" stopped being that a very long time ago.
And, what if the Feedstock was from brine Lakes for commercial salt extraction and was lithium rich? (I am unsure if lithium stays in solution when sodium chloride comes out)
> Most of the world’s lithium comes from brine deposits in South America, although companies like Talison also operate hard rock mines in Australia. The cost of extracting a ton from a brine site costs around $2,000 says Paes-Braga while mined ton of lithium costs closer to $4,000. (These are operational costs that do not include capital.)
Of course for those the main expense isn't electricity but labor, etc.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelkanellos/2016/08/29/is-t...
This is the consequence of optimizing for clicks
Not saying something like electrifying the oceans. But, something like power generation with Wind, solar or tidal energy, and store it in some kinetic form like Norway did with water up the mountain, and then transfer power upon need to the coastal cities.
they just directly suggest nonsense now. Cool, cool
There are a few things that we extract from seawater right now... common salt, obviously (though a lot of that is also mined), magnesium, bromine...
It's definitely not a completely cockamamie idea, but I have no idea whether this particular process is enough cheaper than existing sources to make it worthwhile.
They claim $5 USD/kg for electrical costs. Capital costs are unspecified.
Looks like lithium metal goes for about $80-85/kg, so it seems promising, depending on what kind of capital investment is required.
They're also claiming they *figured out how to derive energy from the rotation of the earth*. Which if it were real would be a major revolution in and of it self. Why not just sell that? Nope, they have to attach a gold extraction thing and desalinate seawater.
They're obviously a quack.