Comment by bszupnick | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bszupnick | Hacker News Reader

As someone who just had a kid, I can definitely say the healthcare system and daycare are HUGE expenses that would make it financially tough to have another one.

We've paid ~$10k in medical expenses up until now, and daycare is ~$2k a month (context; Long Island, NY).

The medical expenses PILE UP. Obviously the birth they filled up my wife's deductible, but then (and I should have predicted this) they started filling up our newborn's!

Our 3 month old then had a cold so we took him to the doctor who checked for RSV and covid with one swab. We got a bill for $1600.

And daycare? You need a VERY flexible job to handle a kid in daycare. LO gets his normal vaccines and springs a fever? He needs to stay home for 2 days. Daycare also took a long memorial day weekend AND the last day of June was off too for "between semesters".

Having a kid in daycare is a part-time job with unexpected hours that you pay a ton to have.

Thank God I work at a wonderful company that is SUPER understanding because I don't know what we'd do if it didn't.

Why aren't Americans rioting in the streets?

I had a kid recently and the entire process of labour was free. We even stayed an extra couple of nights. We had a midwife with us the whole way through the pregnancy, and we still didn't pay a cent.

As for leave, I got six weeks at full pay; my partner gets a year (approx 60% at full time pay, 30% at minimum wage, 10% unpaid - that's how she organised it).

Because they're used to it? There's also a huge disparity in costs of medical/neo-natal care.

The poor pay nothing, the lower middle tend to get stuck with a bill that they can end up affording, and the upper middle and above often have insurance plans that give them great care for an out of pocket that they don't really notice (this is a huge generalization and actually varies )

As for leave many Americans take pride in not taking time off. One lady i met was saying that a recent round of maternal leave increases were unnecessary as she was able to go back to work the week after...

When one factors in children (one or more), the calculus of which country to work/live in quickly favours European countries over North American ones. At one child it’s probably comparable, but with multiple children it clearly favours european countries.

Can you elaborate more on _why_ you decided to have a kid? :)

I'm definitely in favor of having kids because I'm not sure what sort of end-game a civilization is aiming for if they decide to stop having kids, but I've yet to have a discussion on this topic with a younger native European that actually wants or has kids. The answer is always either "well I want to be able to travel and have fun without caring for a child", or "the world sucks so I don't want to bring a kid into it".

(I'm Australian for the record.) Over the last few years I've moved away from that mindset that you outline.

I was finding that a life of travel, hobbies, and low responsibility was becoming more hollow to me.

And the world is a tough place, but it always has been and always will be. I just didn't think that allowed me to absolve myself of responsibility in making it better and doing what a saw was my duty.

Also kids are pretty cool. They're like little acid trippers. I didn't want to miss out on the chance to have that experience.

It's telling that my first reaction to "~2k a month" in daycare expenses was that it seemed like a pretty good deal. My son's daycare 13 years ago was $2400/month.

It's even more telling that there's such a disparity in insurance. I think the entirety of pre and post natal care for my son cost us < $500 out of pocket.

I agree that money is a big factor. I graduated college in 1997 with a "large" amount of debt for the time, which was $35k. I was able to pay it off in about 7 years, while still living in a (very, very small apartment) in a city. My wife and I had a fun 4-5 years of living debt-free and enjoying life experiences before settling down and having a kid.

Between massive loans and skyrocketing housing costs, it's much harder for the younger generation to do those things as young as I was able to. I think people now are also more OK with prioritizing other life experiences and feeling less pressure to have kids.

The "time" part is very tough. We were incredibly fortunate to find a day care that was literally across the street from my wife's office. It didn't reduce days off or need for random pickups, but it did make things a little easier. I'd say that roughly 50% of PTO I've taken was for childcare related things.

> My son's daycare 13 years ago was $2400/month.

If you don't mind me asking, where was this? The average cost in California in 2009 was $940/month.

This was in Boston and for a full-time professional day care.

>(and I should have predicted this) they started filling up our newborn

Look up embedded vs. unembedded deductible/plans.

Also, I may be considered an extreme example, because I'm morally opposed to reven trying to rear a child until I can satisfy myself I can maintain stability of a household. Looking after other folks kid@s is fine, but I won't actively attempt procreation til I have the process basics mostly down.

Yes, everyone says you'll never pull it off. No, I'm sticking to my guns anyway, because I have a rather large list of things people tell me will never happen, and it gets larger by the day.

My folks lives about 5m away from us so they could deal with picking them up from school in the midday , doctor visits or the unexpected illness.

Without that I don't know how we would have managed.

If the kid had a cold, what did you expect the doctor to do about it?

COVID was a possibility and if that was the case, I wanted to make sure he had medical attention.

I couldn't ask him if his taste has diminished. All I knew was he was having sever upper respiratory issues.

Covid tests aren't free or low cost where you are?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com