Hacker News Reader

Comment by EMM_386 | Hacker News Reader

Very interesting, and something I'd be interested in at the moment.

But I am hesitant on the price point. At ~$4,800 / year as with the sample proposal, it might be a tough sell (or "rent", in this case).

The other options are to hire a designer and buy the furniture. High upfront cost but you still own the furniture and can always re-sell it to recoup some costs. Yes, this is a hassle. But how much is the hassle worth?

I can also just do a long-term AirBnb rental that comes fully furnished, many already with great style. Then I don't have to worry about any of this.

If I had a lot more disposable money than I currently have, and I had to get a place for an extended period of time, I'd do this in a heartbeat. So perhaps I am not the target market.

I wish you luck, there is certainly a market out there for something like this.

View on HN

> At ~$4,800 / year as with the sample proposal, it might be a tough sell (or "rent", in this case).

Thanks for the feedback, I agree that it's not extremely affordable yet, and we're trying hard to get the price down. We currently work with a retail partner but plan on going direct-to-consumer soon, which should make our package more affordable.

Since we currently only serve the Swiss market, it's common for unfurnished apartments in Zurich cost upwards of $2,000, so adding $400 on top of that for a really beautiful interior package is not that big of a jump, especially when compared to fully-furnished apartments which cost significant more.

> The other options are to hire a designer and buy the furniture.

We also offer a buyout option, so all your monthly payments go toward ownership. Our goal is to ensure that you don't end up paying more during the course of your subscription than the retail price of the furniture if you were to purchase it all upfront.

> I wish you luck, there is certainly a market out there for something like this.

Oops, missed that last one.

> I wish you luck, there is certainly a market out there for something like this.

Thanks so much! We're looking forward to more feedback!

> it's common for unfurnished apartments in Zurich cost upwards of $2,000, so adding $400 on top of that for a really beautiful interior package is not that big of a jump, especially when compared to fully-furnished apartments which cost significant more.

I'd be mindful of that assumption across markets. I'm in London and while furnishing may have an impact on the list price for some properties, list price is almost always a product of the market and it's rarely possible to quantify the _cost of furnishing_. For example, apartments in my building are roughly the same price whether furnished or unfurnished. Furnishing is seen as a convenience here[1], not a financial benefit.

I do think this is a great proposition and that, once prices come down, you'll have a good opportunity in London -- just challenging the assumption that furnishing is universally reflected in price :)

[1] Typically, a furnished property is easier to tenant, so landlords can choose between furnishing (easier to find a tenant, risk of expensive damage) or unfurnished (harder to find a tenant, no risk of damage). Very common to see a furnished property offered "furnished or unfurnished" if someone wants to bring their own furniture, and that doesn't impact the price.

> For example, apartments in my building are roughly the same price whether furnished or unfurnished.

I would question that statement. :) That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense economically. The only two reasons that come to mind why this may be true are a) the furniture in the furnished apartments is super cheap or b) the furnished apartments are located subpar in one way or another. But I may be wrong.

At the top end of the market the amount of money involved means it's often more economical to focus on maximising occupation, rather than minimising initial costs. My apartment, for example, is worth around £1m and has around £10,000 worth of furniture in it provided by the landlord: if during the lifespan of the furniture the convenience of the apartment being furnished reduces tenancy voids by a total of 3 months then the furniture pays for itself.

I don't want to expose my address but you can browse "London" on the UK property website Rightmove and find comparable apartments (same building, same floorplan) with furnished/unfurnished prices that are no different.

Ah now I get it. Yeah you're absolutely right. I can imagine that we'll be working with landlords in markets like these instead of going directly B2C. While landlords may not care too much about the financial aspect of renting furniture they may care about the service aspect. We take care of the furniture, insure it, replace it ect. :)

Just a quick follow-up to provide an example, where furnished is cheaper than unfurnished, despite being identical: same building, same floorplan.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/110025968

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/110204747

That's fascinating! We'll look into this.

>it's common for unfurnished apartments in Zurich cost upwards of $2,000

I'd say that's the lower end, actually. Zürich is indeed pretty pricey.

As someone who owns a 2 bedroom condo and plans to stay for awhile but is still mostly furnished with Ikea, I would absolutely be interested in a buyout option!

Yep, we've seen homeowners or long-term renters especially interested in the buyout option. Fast furniture is a big climate problem, and although IKEA tries to show itself as sustainable, it's really the other thing. This is we only offer high-quality furniture, the kind that you won't replace every few years. That, combined with full insurance, things last longer and can be refurbished when you want to move out.

I paid an extra $500/month with an 11 month commitment for a furnished place over a non furnished. Maybe a little steep, I think I overpaid, but the one thing I will say to anyone reading this:

The benefits of living in a nicely arranged and furnished home can not be overstated. I work from home and my productivity ... and income ... and my peace of mind ... went up dramatically.

> The benefits of living in a nicely arranged and furnished home can not be overstated

Same! Even though we're based in and only service Switzerland for now, I live in Groningen, the Netherlands (we're a fully remote team), and I got a fully furnished apartment. A comparable unfurnished apartment is ~€800 and I pay €1400, but damn -- it's just so much nicer! And that combined with having a cleaning service [1] so you don't have to think about much at all, it's almost like living in a hotel!

[1] Pabio optionally offers a bi-weekly cleaning service (2.5 hours every other week for ~$100/m) through a partnership.

I second the price question.

I might not be the target customer in this case. But I'm not sure how a professionally designed interior is a good option for saving money. I'm cheap, so my first choice is looking for quality used furniture off of places like craigslist. I've gotten some pieces I'm happy with.

But the issue with furnishing an empty apartment that way is that it takes longer to find pieces, especially if you want it to match. My assumption is prices would be more than retail at a minimum. I'm also not usually comfortable with in-store financing offers. They usually aren't a good deal. But your terms could be good, debt seems to be cheap right now.

This does definitely sound like something I would be interested in though if my place was empty and I was happy with pricing.

> I'm not sure how a professionally designed interior is a good option for saving money

If you have to manually hire and pay a professional interior design, it's not very affordable, I agree. At Pabio, we have several in-house designers from eastern Europe so it costs us (and therefore, you) a very small (bundled) amount. This is also because they don't need to spend too much time on each apartment (each designer does multiple apartments per day) as they are aided by our technology, for example our drag-and-drop floor plan design tool and automated rendering engine.

> My assumption is prices would be more than retail at a minimum

You'd think so, but this is excitingly not the case. You never pay more than retail. This is possible because we get a discount from our retail partners much larger than customers would get because of our volume. Also, furniture has huge margins, so we're planning on going direct-to-consumer later this year, which means even more savings for the customer. Either way, our offering is more affordable than buying all your furniture upfront from a retailer, especially when you think of the bundled services, e.g., fully insured furniture (don't be afraid of dropping coffee!), free delivery and installation, and optional paid addons like electricians and cleaning services.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com