Pfizer to seek U.S. authorization for Covid booster shot | Hacker News Reader

Pfizer to seek U.S. authorization for Covid booster shot

reuters.com

30 pointsdoppp45 comments

Curious to know why alternatives are still being suppressed as a possible treatment. We need to start talking about covid management. We wouldn’t use it for those with lesser symptoms but for those who are hospitalized who may or may not benefit, it’s worth a try. I can’t see a constant booster shot being the only solution to this.

What suppressing? The WHO and national agencies are actively looking for treatment options, and just last week another medication was approved for in-hospital COVID-19 treatment.

It's just that nothing that has been tried yet works nearly as well as vaccination.

Ivermectin, HCQ have done wonders in asian countries. The fact that they are not even considered is frightening, and the studies against their use have extremely small and non-general sample sizes.

Can't find any decent sized study for their use or supporting "done wonders". Have any?

I’ve read a few articles (not bookmarked) in Chinese that talks about it. I think if we live in a westernized country we may have limited information available to what’s happening locally at other countries.

This is just one article that talks about it. Even though it cites the Australia study that showed no big difference, it also says it’s a small sample size and due to its safe history and other studies that have shown it has positive effect, we can experiment it. Again I’m not arguing for it to be used for the light symptoms but rather the ones that are already on their deathbeds.

https://finance.sina.com.cn/tech/2021-06-23/doc-ikqciyzk1306...

Also the Indian Bar association has sued WHO Chief Scientist - though I’m not sure the latest on this https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indian-ba... (English)

Ivermectin: https://ivmmeta.com/

HCQ: https://c19hcq.com/

Also I know a lot of people who have taken 1 or both doses but have said if it becomes a routinely booster shots, they’ve decided their risk profile isn’t worth taking it. So we will see a decline in vaccinations if that happens. I haven’t read the latest medication approved for in-hospital covid treatment so will take a look at that.

Constant booster shot means constant money.

Can you specify which alternatives are being suppressed?

Ivermectin, HCQ

https://twitter.com/josh_wingrove/status/1413306651625594894

"The CDC and FDA have issued an unusual evening joint statement, which pushes back on Pfizer's announcement that it will seek approval for a third shot (second booster).

"Americans who have been fully vaccinated do not need a booster shot at this time,"

The news will continue to post stories and think pieces about new covid variants for several years knowing they'll get clicks.

This information whiplash from one set of experts and then another set of experts disagreeing with the first set, 24 hours later in the news cycle is becoming more common.

Hopefully those that are vaccinated can move on with their lives, without boosters and without having to vaccinate their young children.

What's the timeline look like for widespread production of a Pfizer vaccine targeted at the delta variant?

Would such a vaccine be mixed with the current vaccine to give resistance against more varients?

someone’s making bank

Exactly this. I find it interesting that most people seem to forget that we have immune systems that have served us well for our entire evolution and human history, and all of sudden we ignore that same system that was built exactly for this kind of thing.

It coincides with a society that's become hyper-focused on historically small risks. Look at anxiety rates in children, etc.

I guess it must have to do with the progress of humanity. Life has become so good that even relatively small dangers are becoming the only ones left. Or kind of like the misery of the wealthy.

Any sense of proportion has gone down the drain.

Its simply unethical to start administering booster shots when most people in the world are still waiting for their two doses.

The Pfizer vaccine has cold chain requirements that mean it can't be used for half the world. It's also not clear if we're better off knocking down cases massively in some countries to prevent mutations or doing a slow (2+ year?) rollout across the world targeting the most at-risk, but at the risk of vaccine-resistant strains. That said, the US is looking like a pretty fertile breeding ground for a vaccine resistant strain.

Most of the world has no trouble with the cold chain requirements for their urban populations at least. Liquid nitrogen / oxygen is a common industrial good across the world.

And vaccine resistant strains aren’t a big deal, as demonstrated in the new article - the vaccines are still 95% effective at preventing severe illness.

They are still 95% effective after 6 months at preventing death. They are unknown effective against new variants. I've seen a variety of studies with different variants tested against Delta. At best I read 92% for Pfizer (but a previous test had them at 60%), other vaccines as low as 30%. The new variants like lambda have shown it responds to antibiotic poorly, it spreads quickly and is more deadly compared to delta. I'm not sure the vaccine strategy will continue to work.

Israel's Pfizer study has it at 64% effectiveness against Delta infection, but 94% against serious illness. That's still pretty decent.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/5...

Maybe I've misread, but why would you expect a virus to respond to antibiotics at all?

Some of the indirect effects of Covid are infection by opportunistic bacteria. They don't help you fight Covid per-se, they help you not die.

> ...as demonstrated in the new article

These new strains aren't even close to vaccine resistant, yet. Vaccines haven't been around long enough for that.

Liquid oxygen? You can use it for cooling things. Not safely at least.

The Us is already producing a new strain.. B1526 is iota

What we are seeing is new variants coming from large populations around the globe.

Delta is here. Lambda has just arrived. The Vietam variant which is delta+the British no one is talking about.. it will soon have a name.

Better to lockdown, vaccinate those populations before giving a third or fourth or weekly dose.

Saving Pfizer doses means other brands can go to hotter climates.

It took us 6 months to vaccinate 400-500 mil. people in industrial nations with the best logistics systems on the planet.

We won't even be able to vaccinate the rest with basic doses for 7 years at a minimum at this rate.

Alternatively, we produce cheap prophylactic drugs in industrial quantities and flood the battlefield.

Bloomberg reports 3.35 billion doses administered, 10% in the US alone. We also have unknown tens or hundreds of millions of unused (and expiring) doses we have been unwilling to share with the world (as we continue to manufacture millions more per day).

Most of the 6 months has been scaling up (and fixing) production, same reason iPhones are in short supply on release day.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo...

I was wrong on the numbers. I have gone through the article. Still won't be done by early 2023, even at this rate.

Logistics are hell, outside of urban centers.

That was limited by manufacturing not logistics. If we continue scaling up manufacturing (and not diverting it to unnecessary uses like booster doses), the world can get vaccinated in a reasonable time frame.

Have you ever work in so-called 2nd and 3rd world countries ?

One could even argue that the second shot - with its comparably small efficacy improvement for hospitalisation and death - should be given to other countries, and much more so a third shot.

How does ethics play into this at all? Pfizer is delivering vaccines as fast as they can, and at this point the bottleneck is logistics. It’s not exactly easy to set up the infrastructure to administer 14 billion shots.

The fact that Pfizer is ready with a booster has little to do with the actual administration of the vaccine.

Sharing IP to allow other countries to manufacture their own doses would be a huge step forward.

Ain’t no country going to make the mRNA vaccines in time unless they already have the technology.

A lot of countries have the technological capability to manufacture mRNA vaccines with open licensing. However those aren't the only options, and even developing countries can make vaccines like the AZ and J&J ones as evidenced by some of the existing outsourced production. What's lacking is the legal right to do so.

This also should be a global engineering effort with technology transfer and an active effort to open up COVID vaccine manufacturing wherever possible.

Do the "tech transfer" step too.

Our privatized system of engineering is such garbage.

Even with tech transfer you’d be looking at years before being able to manufacture. This is a very specialized process. It’s not like following a cookbook.

What is the evidence for that? Surely it depends on the degree of tech transfer?

Coca cola sells that many drinks every day.

Training someone to do injections takes an hour.

There are millions of people available to help if it'll save their lives.

Pfizer actually manufactures only half of the third step in the process it acquired when it bought BioNTech. Everything before is actually made by only three subcontractors of BioNTech in 3 factories in Switzerland, Germany and Belgium (which does the other half of the step). They are already working at well over originally planned maximum capacity for these plants.

And that's for the original 2 doses only. Pfizer is supposed to have manufacturing capacity open sometimes later this year...

Where they are gonna manufacture the booster ? Good question. So yeah, you can say it's not gonna be that fast.

> Pfizer actually manufactures only half of the third step in the process it acquired when it bought BioNTech.

BioNTech is partnering with Pfizer (and Fosun) to manufacture and distribute the vaccine, but Pfizer has not bought BioNTech. They're still an independent, publicly-traded company.

Yes, checked it. I was wrong. It's still mostly German owned.

If they create additional demand they can make more profit for years. They are one of the few companies who are approved for anyone under 18. They could expand production based on this.

The ethical issue comes from using doses as boosters instead of administering them to unvaccinated people.

And no, the bottleneck is not logistics - there are many countries around the world still waiting on vaccine deliveries that they have the logistics to administer.

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