What happened to sidecars? | Hacker News Reader

What happened to sidecars?

ontheroadtrends.com

71 pointsedward82 comments

What happened to them is that they are being raced on motocross tracks. It's called sidecarcross! It's a bit of a niche sport; Here are a few pictures of a sidecar built on a Husaberg 650 (which is a completely ludicrous machine in its own right): https://www.facebook.com/dirtyman36/posts/for-sale-vmc-2013-...

Heh, this also seems to have happened to them: https://www.bikeexif.com/ducati-sidecarcross

Still have them at the Isle of Man TT as well, utterly insane in an already insane(ly brilliant) event.

Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkjzf8HYKU

Also at the IoM Southern 100

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9wvcCJSOSk

In 1969 it was called “sidehacking”, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sidehackers

Infamous MST3K episode.

>The writers were unaware of the film's darker content when they selected it for the show, only watching it in its entirety during their usual joke-writing sessions. They were horrified to discover the scene in which Rommel's girlfriend Rita is raped and killed, juxtaposed with shots of Luke and Lois' children playfully roughhousing.

> https://www.bikeexif.com/ducati-sidecarcross

They seem to have accidentally replaced the word 'awesome' with 'obnoxious' - a common mistake.

I have a sidecar attached to my Honda shadow. It's a weirdly fascinating thing ; riding a sidecar is as different from riding a bike, as riding a bike is from driving a car. The dynamics are all different, handling is absurd, etc. A pretty good overview of the weirdness is as [1]

It's definitely not my daily ; I can't lane split, which means it takes as long to commute with as the car. But every time I'm riding it, I can't help but grin under the helmet.

[1] https://www.rideapart.com/features/255154/how-to-ride-a-side...

Those instructions are hilarious and terrifying!

The first time you're turning right and the wheels come off the ground, it's truly terrifying. Because the first time it happens you literally have no coping mechanism and simply careen forward in a straight line, because no intuitive steering input is capable of making you turn right.

But once you get it down, it's a genuine hysterical fun thing.

I very much recommend the yellow book by David Hough, if you want to get into it. https://www.dmcsidecars.com/yellow-book/

I was hoping to see more in-depth explanation, but the article provides just this:

> But as the decade passed, and cars became cheaper and smaller, consumers moved toward travel on four wheels.

I mean the safety risk has to be astronomical compared to being in a car with airbags.

I’d be surprised if there was a different reason.

The safety risk is astronomical even compared to being in a car without airbags. Also compared to being on a (normal) motorcycle. Hacks are dangerous.

Every year the Pioneer Run goes right past my door, lots of pre-1915 motorised bicycles and motorbikes going from London to Brighton. It's always a riot, and amazing to see these old machines on the road - I've taken many pics over the years, but here's my favourite sidecar one from 2004.

[0] http://hazeii.net/images/2004/pioneer/p25l.jpg

Is the sidecar made of... wicker?

Yes, lots of old superstructure was made of wicker/wood/whatever was to hand. There will be a metal frame under it, of course, but wicker is perfectly strong enough (ever been in a hot air balloon? The baskets are usually wicker, and strong enough to hold 8 people of more).

Here's another pic of wicker usage on an old bicycle/motorbike:-

http://hazeii.net/images/2004/pioneer/p16.jpg

Very amusingly, it's possible to check the numberplate of that bike on the UK gov. website vehicle MOT page [0]. That bike was registered 31st December 1913 - so it's a mere 108 years old now.

[0] https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

Neat, thanks for sharing! The motor(?) on that one is super interesting, too!

Harley-Davidson stopped making sidecars in 2011 according to a 2016 Washington Post story [1]. The DC police owned more sidecars than motorcycles, but recent Harley-Davidson motorcycles were built without a way to attach the sidecars.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/could-ico...

Sidecars are alive and well. You see a ton of them in Southeast Asia. They are frequently used by street vendors selling various kinds of food. I've also seen them used for hauling cargo and people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ice_cream_street_vendor_-...

Yeah, the article is looking at things from a "western" perspective. I would say sidecars were (or still are) for people who use a motorcycle for practical reasons. In countries where motorcycles are mostly a "lifestyle accessory" or a hobby rather than a practical means of transport, sidecars have vanished.

I’ve lived in Colombia and Peru about a year total. I’ve seen countless motorcycles and not one sidecar. I think it’s more of an Asia thing.

> I would say sidecars were (or still are) for people who use a motorcycle for practical reasons.

One major advantage of motorcycles/scooters that it's very easy to do filtering and lane splitting, which helps in more crowded urban streets:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

With a sidecar you'd lost that ability and be stuck in traffic just like a car.

Sure but lane splitting has been or still is illegal in most of the US (CA being a notable exception)

I think you’ll have a hard time finding cops who don’t find the idea of enforcing such laws utterly preposterous. Most wouldn’t even try to stop a motorcycle.

Many things that are hard to prevent are still dangerous and wrong.

In the US what would stop me is people aren't expecting lane splitting, so they're not looking for it. The chance of getting pancaked is much higher.

Regardless you almost never see people do it in Oregon and I'm pretty certain the cops there would absolutely pull you over for it.

I don't have enough experience to speak for other states where it is also illegal.

Also among the popular forms of transportation in the Philippines, where they are known as "tricycles". Sometimes to the point of ridiculous overloading, such as this pic: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tricycle_overloade...

Urals are alive and well. Some have 2-wheel drive and are unstoppable offroad.

https://www.imz-ural.com/gear-up

That’s what happened to sidecars… for 17k you get a brand new car.

> for 17k you get a brand new car.

US$ 17K isn't actually that expensive for a new motorcycle on the high-end.

A Ural with or without a sidecar can hardly be considered high-end.

Hah. I asked my mechanic would he help if I bought one and he said he'd refuse to work on it.

The way I understand it, they're a lot better nowadays. Even switched to EFI a few years back.

I anticipate getting one of these if they ever bring it to fruition: https://www.imz-ural.com/electric

I saw that "concept" at the Long Beach bike show a few years. It's literally the guts of a Zero bolted into an Ural frame.

At least one of the things that I personally find exciting is the idea of having a huge stack of batteries in the sidecar. Would be great for both capacity, and handling when you don't have a passenger. You could even add a teslaesque "ludicrous" mode and not worry about running out of battery.

Weird. Air and oil cooled BMWs are actually pretty nice to work on (except the the R1100GS toolkit doesn't include feeler gauges for the intake and exhaust valves).

Someone in Portland has a beautiful olive drab Ural and matching sidecar. I want it.

I have a modern Ural, it is more expensive and less practical than a regular motorcycle, which means you get it almost exclusively because it's weird and you are weird.

Are they still a clone of a '50s-'60s BMW?

Holy poop, their dealer in AL is about half an hour from me. I'll have to meander down there some time.

Yes, but they've been making continuous improvements. Every year the build quality and material quality seem to get a little better. The pre-EFI 2013 and earlier bikes had a lot of rough edges and were known for questionable alloy quality. Mine is a 2014 and has had an oil weep/mist since the day I bought it. But new ones seem to have a solid EFI system, the alternator is made by Denso so the electrical system is pretty good, the brakes are Brembo so they're good. Just don't be misled by social media seeing them cross rivers and go up mountains, they are capable of that but it'll cause lots of rust and the need to regrease everything. They are not as reliable as a modern major manufacturer motorcycle.

Can confirm. I’ve had my Ural with sidecar (2WD) for 12 years. It was my daily driver for half that. It’s wonderful and practical, but I say that as a motorcyclist and bicyclist.

Seats three adults comfortably (one behind driver on a large comfy tractor seat with a grab handle). I originally bought it as a dirt road camping and long road tripping bike because it has a huge trunk in the sidecar and lots of tie-down points. Spare wheel and tire. It handles well fully laden since the frame is heavy duty. Very low horsepower. Great torque. 2WD useful in snow and gravel.

Top speed 105 km/h but it’s happiest at 90 km/h and I’ve run it all day in the heat on highways at that speed. Secondary roads beat freeways for a motorcycle trip IMO anyways. It’s mechanically very simple with an unstressed, air-cooled motor.

People joke about shitty Russian quality. Would it rust faster than my Honda left in the rain? Yes. No plastic, little aluminum, lots of steel. Save exhaust, my drivetrain is stock and has been extremely reliable. Mine is carbeurated but the factory switched to EFI some time ago. The metal quality of the rims and spokes was my only complaint so I’m getting a new set laced up and colour matched as I type this. My Honda, Harley, and Yamaha have all had more expensive parts and service bills than my Ural.

It also excels at urban errands with style —- lockable and rainproof trunk. I’ve bought and sold other bikes but I will never get rid of the Ural.

More smiles per mile.

Thanks for the nice writeup. Ride safe!

Isn't the idea that it is for the main passenger? These days you can comfortably sit behind a driver when a rear luggage acts as a back of a chair. Or when there is an actual chair at the rear (google "honda goldwing").

Or "Honda Leadwing" as they are referred to by other motorcyclists. A bike that massive seems to defeat a lot of the point of having a motorcycle IMHO.

More for long distance touring, rather than speed or everyday usage.

Cruising around in an armchair taking it all in

Them being dangerous, and undrivable was what has happened.

I think the biggest nail in the coffin was the militaries abandoning motorcycles around the world.

Exactly. Let’s take a vehicle designed to steer by leaning, and stop it leaning. Yay!

This is why I tell people it is very impractical to engineer tricycles, as:

They are less stable than motorcycles

Putting in all kinds of complex leaning system makes them either even harder to drive, or so heavy, and complex that all the weight, cost, and part count advantages over 4 wheels are lost few times over.

It very much depends on the design of the tricycle. Tricycles with two front wheels are rather stable. And they offer several advantages vs. motor bikes, as you don't have to lean before you can steer, recovering from a loss of grip is also more likely. I am driving a tricycle (2 front wheels) recumbent bike and am very happy with it, especially on slippery ground. I also like having 2 front disc brakes for quick stopping - basically as fast as a car.

Yeah, they're very much the worst of both worlds. All the physical peril and discomfort of a motorcycle, none of the bonus mobility.

In one direction. It can lean in the other. :-)

The Netherlands says: hold my beer

https://www.bakfiets.com/

No we say, hold my bierfiets: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierfiets

Oh God, we have those in Berlin, too. They're almost exclusively used by British beer tourists.

Not aware of thins being unique to Netherlands.

Freight bicycles are also in extensive use in Denmark.

In Japan: https://www.pattyyuan.com/blogv5/eco-friendly-delivery-servi...

I often see those in Tokyo.

Also very popular in Cambridge - which really just supports the point someone made in another thread that they're still common in regions that use motorcycles predominantly practically as opposed to sport/luxury/hobby. (Cambridge & NL have high bicycle density in general.)

Cambridge, MA too!

Talking about the Netherlands: when I got the theory part of my motorcycle license, I had to learn (and got tested on) all sorts of crazy traffic situations involving sidecars. Of course, I have never seen one in my entire 4+ decade life.

If you haven’t been in one of those without a helmet or any other protective gear - you missed a lot.

But to answer the question: Germans stopped putting MG42 on sidecars, so they lost their utility [1].

1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Twee_duitsers_op_mot...

My father had a Vespa with one of those where my mother used to sit, before I was born.

I haven't seen many of those on the wild. The image that's still fresh is the pair of serones (esparto panniers) in the back of peasants' motorcicles. One containing the hoes and ropes, in the other a happy greyhound looking around.

Edit, I found a photo:

https://www.elespartero.es/articulos/albums/userpics/005%20a...

> panniers

It might be common knowledge, but I was elated to find out that the word pannier did actually arise out of the word for bread.

> c. 1300, paniere, "large basket for provisions," from Old French panier, paniere "basket," from Latin panarium "bread-basket," noun use of a nerter adjective meaning "pertaining to bread," from panis "bread," from PIE root *pa- "to feed." Transferred sense of "frame of whalebone, etc., used to distend the skirt of a woman's dress at the hips" is by 1869.

I found it in a dictionary as a "sera" translation. In Spain I doubt many people even knows the word. In my hometown it was "serón" (a big sera). Those words are quickly becoming relics. It was funny to see the thing, that was originally used with mules, adapted to motorbikes.

They ended up in K8s pods :)

The 'forecar' in the article looks terrifying. Imagine that strapped to the front of a modern sportsbike!

That's not what it would be for.

It's for taxi services, where most trips would be in urban traffic, at a top speed of about 20mph, and not going further than 3 miles.

I remember round about 1960 one of my Grandma's neighbours had a motor-bike and sidecar - it always looked very dodgy to me, and the neigbour looked on enviously at my Dad's Hillman Minx, but then the bike never lead to a near-death experience: http://www.rafjever.org/93sqnpic142.htm

I really enjoyed reading about the adventures of a family that toured the US on their BMW and sidecar.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/bakery-quest-a-year-hacking-t...

There was a group of expats in Shanghai who were commonly riding classic motorcycles, often with gorgeous restored sidecars - never looked into it but I assumed they were probably cheap, given the cosmopolitan history of the city and the current cultures emphasis on the new

There are still a lot of these in the former USSR in daily use. When I came to USA first I was kind of surprised to see none of them here since they were so normal there.

Not gonna lie, i thought something happened to the Apple Sidecar

Sidecar pattern in k8s here ;)

There was also an Amiga Sidecar released in 1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Sidecar

That's fascinating. How did the software work with that? Were they native apps flagged to run on the different processor, or was DOS booted on a screen (can't remember what they were called in workbench now) and programs run from there?

I never had one but my guess is you'd boot DOS on the x86 part and everything except for the screen is separated with no ambiguity where to run what code.

Oh. I thought this was about kubernetes. My bad.

I wouldn’t get into a sidecar for all the money in the world.

who clicked this thinking they were talking about container sidecars int he docker/k8s sense :sweat-emoji:

I was thinking "Oh? Another pattern that's apparently going out of style?" and was very surprised when I clicked the article :))

I'm probably working too much with Istio.

I dont work with k8s/istio and was expecting the same!

OT but what a toxic cookie acceptance dark pattern. The prompt (which takes up half the screen) doesn't go away unless you click accept all on Brave mobile. Configuring cookies causes it to stay visible.

Guidelines explicitly ask you to not post this type of complaints unless the author is around https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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