AI bot trolls politicians with how much time they're looking at phones
mashable.com
mashable.com
If this creates a problem for those in the chamber then perhaps the solution is shortening the sessions and removing redundant sessions like reading proposals that everyone could read beforehand, and instead focus on efficient debate and voting.
Lack of attendance or lack of understanding of the discussion they vote on greatly undermines the already narrow interpretation of democracy we do have. It means that not only are "the people" in no way in power, most don't even have a representative in any reasonable interpretation. They are physically not in the room to contribute to the decision, or don't understand their own choice.
A very small minority of representatives gets to decide for a large majority of people they don't representnt.
Just look at how we're still embracing coal, and introducing mileage tax of EVs to repel their takeup.
There's a big network of old chummies and political donations from big fossil behind that.
Great point. We should raise gas taxes to subsidize electric vehicles for people with low incomes. If enough people switch to electric to the point that this revenue starts seriously dropping, great: keep turning up the heat with more gasoline taxes until polluting vehicles are completely gone.
The "it's not fair" trope about road maintenance for EVs isn't super compelling - the vast majority of road damage is from heavy vehicles like semis. Road damage increases with the cube of mass. Once we've put gasoline vehicles in the history books forever we can work on a mass*acceleration tax.
I think I actually support a KM usage tax, but it'd have to be for all kinds of cars - not just the green kind. CO2/PM25 emissions tax should be on top of that.
And: To buy an EV in Australia would be considerable stretch on my own budget, and I'd need every single dollar left after it. I'm actually needing a 2nd car now, and am loath to buy another ICEV.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/955801/victorias-ev-user-tax-is....
https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/victoria-passes-ev-tax-...
There's a $3k limited incentive that was used to distract from the fundamental issues behind taxing EV mileage. It doesn't cover long range cars as they're outside the price bracket.
The reasoning was that there's no fuel excise being collected, yet the fuel tax isn't being used to cover roads - normal tax payments are.
Also it doesn't care that ICEVs currently aren't paying for environmental emissions, when they should.
Actually having said all that I should just have pasted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLflYkgnNBY , which explains it all so much better. (Fair warning: Australian language).
I find it more than a tad ironic that the NSW Liberal (conservative) state government has the best EV incentives while the Victorian Labor ("progressive") has the worst, out of our two most populous states.
[0] https://thedriven.io/2021/04/29/perrottet-flags-holistic-app...
[1] https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/topics/climate-change/net...
https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weigh...
(I _am_ paying on my ICEV, which I'm going to get carbon offsets for soon).
As activists, we can obtain substantial press coverage even without an advertising budget, by carrying out well-thought-out direct actions and acts of civil disobedience, and we can offer direct resistance (for instance, when we build tree houses to occupy forests which are on the clearing list of governments or the fossil fuel industry, like we successfully did with the Hambach Forest in Germany).
I don't think there is an easy way out of this, the "quality" of politicians can only improve if the majority of the people voting for them actually started caring about the actual work they do when elected (instead of basing their decisions entirely on the party they represent, their public image etc.)
At the very least in the next election cycle the people will know who represents them and how.
Abstaining from participating in parliament when you're elected or participating in unconstructive ways (i.e. by being disruptive etc.) is a legitimate behaviour. As long as you're transparent about your intentions to behave so to your voters, removing such MPs without an election would be authoritarian.
If he/she is not transparent about this and this is/becomes a widespread problem it's preferable to decrease the duration of office terms or allow recall elections instead of instituting arbitrary rules (which will have to be approved by the ruling party/coalition and therefore will likely be designed in such a would which would favour them over opposition parties).
This is general theme with meetings: once you've allowed people to do something else and reduce the perceived inefficiency at a personal level, you've allowed meetings to become excruciatingly inefficient since nobody complains anymore. The incentives (again, at a personal level) to make the whole process more efficient disappear, so nobody bothers.
And in any case any question being discussed in the given time might be only relevant to a small subset of the people currently present, what's the point to forcing everyone else to pretend that they are listening...
There are usually tons of formal rules for etiquette, dress code etc which are also in a way posturing, or in another way, showing respect for the institution and processes and showing that they take the job seriously. That something is only superficial does in no way mean it’s useless!
Showing on opposition speaker the same respect that a 10 year old shows their teacher in school seems like a pretty low bar.
The point of forcing everyone to pretend they are listening is the same as the point of forcing everyone to wear a tie: to not make it look like a condo board meeting.
I'd say most of the formal etiquette and dress code rules are needless distractions which historically were designed either to exclude lower class people from government or as a form of a public ritual which would lend additional weight and gravity to decisions made the parliament (because the majority of the population were not educated enough/didn't have enough time/etc. to take them seriously just based on their content).
I think the answer to this is pretty obvious: if you are touching tiny issues with chamber procedure and etiquette but have this problem, perhaps start with this and return to dress code and cell phones once the chamber is functioning at all. Again: the idea with “no phones” completely rests on the idea that there is a minimum of dead time in the chamber. If that can’t be arranged then that’s the issue to address.
> a form of a public ritual which would lend additional weight and gravity to decisions made the parliament
It’s this. And it’s the same reason people wear suits in a courtroom. It’s because showing that something is serious has a point. Being superficial doesn’t mean pointless.
I don't think we can really compare public sessions in a parliaments to regular business meetings. I'd say their main point is to broadcast a summary of decisions (which are largely taken behind close door and the actual voting is just a formality) to the public in a somewhat transparent and formalized way. I would expect a competent MP to generally know what another MP would say on a given topic before he even stands up to speak so unless he's directly participating in the discussion it shouldn't really matter whether he's using a phone at that moment or not.
> It’s because showing that something is serious has a point. Being superficial doesn’t mean pointless
While I'm fundamentally not against maintaining some kind of minimal dress code requirements, I think in modern, advanced societies that mainly serves an utilitarian purpose (by minimizing unnecessary distractions). The assumption that somehow the more distinguishing dress code or complex etiquette rules a specific public procedure has the more seriously it's taken by the society sounds bizarre to me. It obviously made sense in the past when status symbols like various non standard suits, gowns, robes and wigs had a point in the past because they signified that the person wearing them was somehow qualified and/or entitled to perform a jobs he's doing. But I don't think many people now would believe that a sentence passed by a judge who wears a wig is somehow more 'serious' compared to if he/she was instead wearing just a gown or simply a suit.
Sure, wear dirty hiking boots to the ballet.
Snort and fart thru the sermon.
Talk loudly in the phone riding crowded publuc transit.
Every day is halloween and you need to unambiguously alert all other participants the esteem you hold for them, or not. So choose your costume wisely.
Of course politicians in meetings like these would be the ones to vote on such a proposal, so don't bet on it.
Anyone who has ever visited a plenary session of parliament (as I have as part of school trips) knows that they are unbelievably boring. 99% of the time, they aren’t about cutting edge law making that will propel society into the next century, but about routine declarations or posturing where a politician wants to promote the local industry.
It is IMO completely acceptable for attendees to just be there and do something else, while waiting for a topic that interests them. This is no different than zoning out during some group meetings where you don’t really care and don’t need to know about most of the topics, but you still are present in case your input is required.
That said, I understand your concern if your definition of work for an elected official seems to be “staring aimlessly at a podium during a plenary session.”
And before you say: “they should actively participate!” Good luck doing that in a session with 200+ participants. Law making is done in smaller sessions and committees. The plenary session is a formality.
In this particular case, chances are that they were filming during “het vragenuurtje”, the Q&A where Flemish members of parliament can get answers from ministers to submitted questions. It’s completely normal for one member to sit at attention while their question get answered while others sit and wait for their turn, and do something else. After all, that member may have an interest in the lack of highway signalization to his village, while other members don’t care. (Yes, Flanders is small enough for these kind of things to be brought up in parlement.)
I totally understand that this doesn’t fit the standard narrative of the lazy politician who doesn’t work for my money, and for that I’m sorry.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I no longer think politicians deserve the benefit of the doubt and one should always be wondering what the ulterior motives of any of their actions are.
That all said: you are saying it is somehow different to you if someone spends their time staring at a laptop, but not a phone? The real response that seems important here is "this is the future: phones are the new laptop"; I typed this comment and my prior comment on my phone, as I tend to do all my comments... what are you still using laptops for?
Or even more hilarious: At the moment the only media attention these politicians get is about their excessive phone use. What they are going to say when it is their turn to talk I have no idea.
This is mostly down to the low amount if time your average member of the public has for politics giving the news media enormous power over narrative (particularly out of context quoting), which requires the public stuff to be kayfabe.
You fail basic etiquette.
AI bot trolls programmers with how much time they're looking on HN
That's what noprocrast, maxvisit and minaway are for, isn't it?
Also anyone who's been doing something with web dev can probably workaround this with just 5 clicks
It's actually implemented back-end, you can't cheat.
Idk whether telling here how to achieve this is good idea
Fixed
I think there's a problem here...
Actual lobbyists write actual legislation, in fact. And our politicians vote on them without having read it. It's a really stupid system.
Each politician has an office of staff behind them collating and feeding them updates. They have staff in that office monitoring the chamber feeds as well.
Disconnecting from that fire hose to only focus on the current speaker would not be as effective to consume all the different sources of information coming in during proceedings.
Sitting in meetings but looking intensely at the laptop or phone.. in the long run this just feels like not being present at all, so I do my best to avoid it. Close laptops when in meetings (when you don't need them).
The worst I've seen of this was in academia, everyone staring into their laptops so hard it felt like a contest.
All the important stuff happens on paper.
Debates are also a useless means of forming policy.
Anyway, parliamentary stuff is theatre and this bot is participating in that theatre.
But don't worry - we are at the end of the democratic time. We are moving/have moved into technocracy communitarianism, where all the meaningful decisions are taken by NGOs at the supra-national level. This is why we have electric car charging points, 7-8 storey building blocks with a shop downstairs, narrower roads (the future is car-less), tiny homes, being pushed off the land, etc.
Mark Carney etc will be help lead the charge away from capitalism.
"In his book Value(s): Building a Better World for All, Mark Carney, former governor both of the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England, claims that western society is morally rotten, and that it has been corrupted by capitalism, which has brought about a “climate emergency” that threatens life on earth. This, he claims, requires rigid controls on personal freedom, industry and corporate funding."
If you're confused how the governor of 2 national banks is now rallying against capitalism, don't worry - go back to sleep.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-foster-mark-carney-ma...
In any case, if you're at a place where you're trying to squeeze the Truth About Power And Everything into a paragraph comment...
IMO, the danger of thinking through "isms" is that they become more meaningless as they become more evocative. A cascade of evocative, idealistic terms definable via other evocative idealistic terms.
This applies both to your comment and to Carney.
If you ask me, I'm calling a spade a spade, and Carney is saying a dog turd is cake. But I think its great you engage in the conversation - we can then establish what each of us means by whatever term, and proceed. You will not get any such satisfaction from Carney and his ilk.
I'm providing more concrete terms for others to potentially investigate, instead of the evocative, idealistic ideas we are provided.
We are told 'progress', 'society', 'justice' etc - these mean whatever you like. But who is stating them? What do they mean by them?
What is justice to person who represents the governance structure? What is progress to someone who heads up a corporation?
These are terms we all use, but the idea behind them means exactly the opposite by those who govern us, to what we commonly understand.
Ultimately, its for us all as individuals to understand what those terms (and other) mean to us, and to then do the research to see if that is the usage that those who govern us also have. That is the work for any individual to do.
Of course, no one checks what is meant - no one. Yet it is all out there. The mistake we make is to assume we are on the same page.
At least one person argued that people have sufficient agency to monitor their own behaviour; it's intrusive and over-steps boundaries ... I'm not saying those responses are wrong, just that it makes an interesting comparison.
What most people seem to overlook: Dries Depoorter is an artist/activist interested in the intersection of privacy, artificial intelligence, surveillance & social media.
Flemish cities are installing surveillance cameras and ANPR cameras everywhere, and they're quickly doubling back on their promise that they'll only be used for tracking serious (organised) crime. Already there have been attempts to use the cameras to enforce lockdown related curfew rules and to surveil streets that have been vandalised with spray paint.
Both are a problem caused by new sophisticated technology which exploit biological human flaws.
It’s incredibly embarrassing how much time these people are spending on social media.
Yes, I remember the the total societal divide we experienced in early 2000s and before. /s
Has it made things better or worse when everything, including non-priorities, can be a distraction.
I don’t quite understand the need for phones in parliament.