Lab-grown food will soon destroy farming – and save the planet (2019)
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
Consequently I don’t believe the people who say space colonization won’t fix most of our issues.
The land use required to rear cattle is phenomenal, not to mention the carbon footprint associated with the animals. This is more than just “marketing”.
FWIW, and I think I said this when this came up before, farming in the west, and particularly in California, has to change because the drought will destroy farming. It already has put a number of farmers into default in the central valley. So any effort that can make that many acres of land even half to three quarters as productive with the water that is projected to be available will be needed.
There are lots of issues with farming animals for meat and carbon output but most can be mitigated. The pathways are reduction of cattle in favour of sheep and goats, changing the gut biome of livestock and removing inefficient breeding stock so the farmers produce the same output with fewer animals. Genetic solutions are available now to address the last two.
Factory meat will augment our supply of protein but they won't scale. The farmland used for livestock is mostly useless for the plant matter needed by the meat factories and the factories themselves are hardly going to be carbon neutral when you add in fertiliser and fuel for all that extra harvesting.
I wouldn't be too keen on eating an extruded factory carrot, not sure I personally want to replace another natural product in my diet with some chemical mess. I am not alone on that.
Full disclosure: my company makes a product that can be used to reduce carbon output of livestock farming.
Thanks for the response. I'm not sure I understand the above paragraph. Are you saying the plant matter needed to feed lab-grown meat cannot be grown on existing space used for livestock?
Climate change is making it worse (droughts etc) but trying to switch a significant portion of protein production to factories might make it worse when we could be working smarter with what we have.
A lot of the artificial protein startups concentrate on burgers, when they really should be going after the poultry and pork industries if they want to show a difference. Those industries are heavily industrialised and needlessly cruel.
Some 'vegan' beef jerky being the most acceptable, but not really true to the expectation either. Could have done wine gums with chili instead, for the same effect.
edit: btw. what you percieve as 'soon' I perceive as drops in an ocean of inertia. This all reads like hype. Why there isn't more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn or any other Ersatz out there? That stuff exists like decades, and before the vegan hype was usually shunned because perceived as fake. I don't really care, may you all grow tits and enjoy futa because trendy. Yay! (Phytoestrogens, get it?)
Hunger is never solved by technology, it's merely pushed into the relatively near future. Decades, centuries at best. Hunger solving futurists should deeply ponder this chart: https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth#world-pop...
* 10,000 BCE: 4M
* 0 AD: 190M
* 1700 AD: 600M
* 1800 AD: 1B
* 1928 AD: 2B
* 1975 AD: 4B
* 2011 AD: 7B
Doubling every 50 years until 20,000x carrying capacity reached, rough estimates.
* 2050 AD: 10B
* 2100 AD: 20B
...
* 2400 AD: 1T
...
* 2750 AD: 200T
If the technology in the article pans out, as of early 2000s, we are about as close to a mindbendingly dystopian 200T population as we are to Magna Charta. Please stop.
* We already observed a techno "Green Revolution" in our recent past. Norman Borlaug, starting in the '60s and '70s. Directly maps to wild unprecedented population growth rates and population levels. 12 years to add 1 billion mouths to feed, 4 billions in a row.
* There are fluctuations in the growth rate over time and space, but this has less impact than our intuition usually grants because we don't intuit exponential processes well. Low growth rate populations are quickly (in historical terms) taken over by high growth rates populations. It's the very logic of biology: the eternal race between exponential growth and entropic decay is won by the populations with highest growth rate * entropy resilience. We can observe it with out fail in a Petri dish. We can also observe this all over the industrialized world, with the (temporary?) exception of insular nations like Japan and South Korea. The Amish will inherit the world.
* Adapting to the industrialized world may have temporarily created the illusion that the carrying capacity is much smaller than it actually is. People started to think that they need 5000 kWh / capita / year instead of the traditional 50 kWh. In the long run, as populations bulge, people will come to terms with reality and accept, out of necessity, much lower per capita energy consumption. In socioeconomic terms, more and more people will get used to "poverty". Techno-optimist socioeconomic palliatives like UBI will, inadvertently but likely, accelerate this process.
Edit. A few words about "poverty", seen as low per capita energy requirements. There are worlds of difference between:
* 2000 BC. Running for food in the big plains / forests.
* 1000 AD. Working the fields in a medieval setting.
* 1950 AD. Living packed in small pockets of industrial high rises.
* 2200 AD (?). Living in a world-wide sprawl of high rises.
* 2700 AD (?). Living in a world-wide artificial dome, Trantor style.
Perhaps the limiting factor will turn out to be that our mammal brains break down before the nigthmare landscape that our ever more efficient techno world will eventually produce.
For 50 years the birthrate per woman is <2. This hardly is a time scale where you can say people did not realise something. I don't see the trend you are describing at all. And this is not isolated. Afaik all developed countries have this trajectory. The solution to overpopulation seems rather simple then. Just make the world developed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_self...
This also doesn't square with the population growth due to immigration Germany has.
Fish are seriously underrated because we can't really connect with them like we can with dogs or cats but they're VERY intelligent.
I've been a fisherman for 30+ years (since I was a boy) and they constantly surprise me with their behavior.
When you catch them they just don't look happy. :-/
if one ever gets on me I'll have the hardest time in my life not to bring him home..
I presume when you say you're a fisherman, you're doing this professionally, i.e. have a boat and go out to see etc?
If so, what brought you to HN? Are you programming?
I was just curious how folks outside of startup & tech find their way to HN.
I haven't got further than high school education either and I'm sure many on here neither.
There is a difference between education and learning.
Seth Godin has a good episode about this on his latest podcast in the QA section.
Listen from 14:00 onwards.
https://podcasts.podinstall.com/seth-godin-akimbo-podcast-se...
Let's say we can make a wish, and snap our fingers and have all the necessary factories in place to replace *ALL* food farming for the globe.
I doubt the entirety of the 10% of green houses gases will be eliminated, probably cut in half, however then we'll need to take into account the electricity needed to run all the new food factories, which will probably add back in another 3%, so once the dust clears we'll see a reduction of about %2 of green house gases, that's assuming all food agriculture is automatically replaced, via a wish.
Also climate impact is more than just greenhouse gasses, water usage is huge and if it can be optimized can be a huge win.
I'm also not sure about your 10% figure, 25% is the first figure I stumble across, of which animal production for food consists of about 50%: https://ourworldindata.org/food-ghg-emissions
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss...
Secondly, your back of the napkin math doesn't seem great - you're just making up that gases would be cut in half with nothing to back that up. You seem to ignore the fact that electricity for agriculture would disappear but then you factor in electricity that would be added back for food factories, so that doesn't make sense either.
Then of course there's the fact that lab-grown meat doesn't require the vast swaths of land required by traditional agriculture. That means you can put food factories closer to urban centers, so now you've eliminated a lot of emissions from transportation.
You might have a different view of what the near/far future looks like but calling people who have a different understanding than you 'dumb' rather reveals that you haven't put any thought into your position.