Fuck work – What if jobs are not the solution but the problem (2016) | Hacker News Reader

Fuck work – What if jobs are not the solution but the problem (2016)

aeon.co

27 pointssaganus14 comments

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If we got rid of work and had a universal basic income, then most of the population would one day be 100% dependent on the governments generosity and good will for their daily sustenance. The opportunity for problems - huge. Even without corruption or intentional ill will from the leaders

Most of the population is already 100% dependent on the government.

Nowhere near that level

It provides water, electricity (most places), garbage collection, sewer, law, police, food safety, etc. Having them give a small sum every month isn't that big of a change

It's the difference between depending on state-run functions common to most/every state, like some state utility companies, policing, courts, food safety, etc, versus depending on the state for your very livelihood.

Only Ayn Rand fans would consider those things "the same".

The tax rate being roughly 30% give or take means that those things cost most people less than a third of their incomes. They still pay for them and are mostly independent. Universal income means that 100% of the system depends on the government and their broad rules about who gets what with no possibility of nuance

I’m not talking about a small supplemental ubi btw, I mean a future where it’s most peoples primary income stream

I get where you are coming from but even then, a large portion of the population already depends on government directly for their income (7-8%) + all the government contractors, etc. Plus the government decides if a lot of business live or die (import tax, regulations, etc.) That's not including all the obtuse tax laws that affect people's income to a huge degree (see the recent article on how billionaires get around to not paying taxes).

It's hard to argue most people are not already mostly dependent on the whims of the government for their income (although imo the utilities the government provides are more important than the income).

> These beliefs are no longer plausible. In fact, they’ve become ridiculous, because there’s not enough work to go around, and what there is of it won’t pay the bills – unless of course you’ve landed a job as a drug dealer or a Wall Street banker, becoming a gangster either way.

The author is simply mistaken. The beginning of the article is just weird

That being said, I don't know what I'd honestly be doing if it weren't for work and some sort of economic status I could achieve. I just wish I had more free time.

> That being said, I don't know what I'd honestly be doing if it weren't for work and some sort of economic status I could achieve.

I feel like that's pretty much what the essay is trying to get you (us) to think about.

>When we place our faith in hard work, we’re wishing for the creation of character; but we’re also hoping, or expecting, that the labour market will allocate incomes fairly and rationally.

No, we provide value for trade, and values people hold fluctuate. The market isn't a monarchial allocator of stores, it's a clearinghouse for exchange.

>So the impending end of work raises the most fundamental questions about what it means to be human.

Assuming you define yourself by your status and material desires.

Status and material desires are important to humans!

More fundamentally though, the vast majority of people (I include myself here) would cite the necessities of survival as their excuse for "why are you not living your dreams right now?" even if they are not particularly materialistic.

What if you take your best shot at the life of your dreams and it sucks? You make that SaaS you've always wanted to and nobody cares? That even if you had all the time to practice you ever wanted that you'll never actually be that good at playing the guitar? What if you try all the things you've wanted to for years and find that none of them are satisfying in the way you thought?

A broad transition to a post work (or greatly reduced work) world will almost certainly trigger a society-wide existential crisis as people re-orient to find new sources of meaning and purpose in their lives. Also, new ways to compete, demonstrate value and achieve status.

Overall I believe this would be a good change but I think it's important not to downplay how difficult the transition would be.

We have models for coping strategies from retirees - but they have a literal lifetime of life experience to draw on and societally they tend to be credited with having contributed throughout their lives. For younger or child-raising age men in particular a widespread sense of being "not needed anymore" might be difficult to come to terms with.

Post-scarcity retirement is an interesting topic, but the author carefully avoids it by focusing on redistribution and distaste for the values he sees in "hard-working" people.

Zombie economics

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