Pinterest bans all weight loss ads | Hacker News Reader

Pinterest bans all weight loss ads

reuters.com

24 pointsel_duderino78 comments

I strongly oppose the notion that one can be healthy/fit at every size, and I don't view claims that overweight people should lose weight as intrinsically body-shaming, but I still think this is a good move.

Those who are buying ads on Pinterest for weight loss aren't doing so out of good will and a desire for people to be healthier - they're doing so to generate profit. They have no interest in actually helping a person change their lifestyle so as to lose weight, keep it off, and become healthier, as those people do not make for repeat customers. Also it's harder to sell a "lifestyle change" (i.e. the information one could use to go from being overweight to a healthy weight) than it is to sell ineffective and sometimes dangerous alternatives such as diet pills and plans.

> I strongly oppose the notion that one can be healthy/fit at every size, and I don't view claims that overweight people should lose weight as intrinsically body-shaming,

I agree. Society lacks nuance. Health outcomes worsen as weight increases, that's just physics. Joints get more strained and the body literally gets slipper during surgery with more fat. There's a weight/body composition spectrum where most people would be healthiest. At the same time, one shouldn't be shamed for being overweight just like we don't shame people for not drinking enough water or drinking alcohol (even though you could argue these are worse than being fat). The modern approach to safeguarding short-term emotions above everything else will come at the cost of other things like physical health, long-term mental health, etc.

Wow, so many people here are reacting so strongly for and against this move. We need to try and look at it objectively [0].

Regardless of what the official statement is, the most obvious reason for this move has to be because weight loss is an area that is riddled with misleading claims and scams, thus it makes for bad user experience.

[0] - http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

Their reason for it is body image and eating disorders [1].

[1] https://newsroom.pinterest.com/en/post/pinterest-embraces-bo...

Of course, brand image et al.

Shame and disgust in myself drove a massive amount of weight loss. I feel better and am far more fit now.

Given America's obesity epidemic, it's sad to me that they are focusing on a small percentage of people with such issues.

I might be biased because my mom fell victim to snake oil weight loss treatments on the Internet that sent her to hospital. Some of these advertisements are for 'medicines' that are so aggressive and lacking in proper dosage practices that they can cause permanent/chronic damage. The dose maketh the poison, and with little oversight these advertisers specialize in peddling poisons with little accountability.

I'm inclined to believe this is a net positive, honestly. Think about how this can affect:

* Less tech savvy and skeptical people.

* People who don't understand medicine well.

* Different geos that are harder to monitor for safety violations and false advertisement. This stuff is huge in Latin America -- does Pinterest really have the bandwidth to monitor these ads in all their geos? What about different legalities by geo?

* People with eating disorders whose user experience is degraded by this kind of advertisement.

Etcetera. Facebook gets constantly lambasted for their poor moderation -- this is a healthier pre-emptive attitude than theirs, I think.

Ads for legit weight loss products should be allowed. How else would I learn about products that could help me lose weight?

Would it be a good idea to ban ads for wheelchairs on the basis that it is "disability shaming"?

What is "legit" though? I've yet to see an FDA approved weight loss product whereas wheelchairs do have to get FDA approval.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-appr...

Oh interesting. Being pedantic here but I'm guessing there's a strong distinction between "weight regulation" and "weight loss" in the regulatory context though?

"for use in addition to a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity"

So really it's not doing much other than reducing how hungry someone feels.

Want to lose weight? It's easy. Go keto. For people that are fat, like myself, cutting carbs will, by nature, cut calories and a higher fat/protein diet will make you feel more full and eat less calories.

The problem is a lot of people like myself want to lose weight while still eating fast food and sitting down all day. No pill/injection will change that.

or get a meal plan that pre-portions your meals. My partner and I struggled to do keto, we lasted like 3 months. The results were impressive, but not sustainable for us.

We've started a pre-packaged meal plan. Meals are normally good (only had a couple we didn't like) but we are down a combined 75+ pounds and still doing the pre-packaged meals since we get a decent selection. Now, we do get a TON of chicken, and that is a struggle, but it's a trade off.

As to your last point, agree. There's no magic pill that will let you lose weight without fundamental changes

Yeah longer term I don't think Keto is sustainable without eating a LOT of fat. I don't get people that are twigs going on it. But if you need to burn fat away theres almost no better way.

A treadmill is an example of a legit weight loss product.

Ads in question are most likely not about treadmill but high-margin supplements / meal substitutes with dubious results.

>Here's a rule of thumb: exercise very hard for one hour (swimming, running, or racquetball) and you'll lose about one ounce of fat. Light exercise for an hour (gardening, baseball, or golf) will lose you a third of an ounce. Want to lose a pound of fat? You can work it off by hiking to the top of a 2,500-story building. Or by running 60 miles.

https://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/22-ThePhysicsDiet.htm

Caloric restriction is the way to lose weight. If that knowledge is not enough, and a book doesn't fix the problem, the solution is likely a regiment, program, club, routine, or subscription. Enter Weight Watchers. https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/weight-watchers-diet https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-weight-loss-diets

If paying money to a service to help you count calories does the trick, it is the answer. Food consumption routines and subscriptions should be allowed, because despite being profitable businesses, they also are beneficial to society. It may or may not be hard for WW to deliver its message around this ban. I would hope that Pinterest has somewhat flexible rules, and makes good judgement calls when something is close. I personally would err on the side of allowing WW to advertise, without letting it be a slippery slope back to snake oil.

Are weight loss products "medical devices?"

There are people and products that promote eating in ways that cause weight loss. Calorie reduction via various methods.

Eg ads for low calorie cookbooks, things to sis keto diets, low calorie products like ice cream, etc

They don't work. That's the problem.

Weight loss companies are hardly the only industry that advertises non-functional products, right?

What's your point? Ban all the deceitful garbage.

I don’t disagree but it seems less like they’re taking a blanket approach like that and more like they’re targeting this industry for other reasons.

If they are banning because these ads are fraudulent then absolutely that makes sense. But if they are banning it because they are "fat shaming" then that makes no sense.

> How else would I learn about products that could help me lose weight?

Is this a legit question? Use a search engine or ask your doctor/pharmacist. You don't need ads for it.

Are you serious? There is no need for advertising or marketing departments for any product? If you invented a new, legit weight loss product why shouldn't you be able to advertise it?

Correct - the world would be substantially improved with no advertising whatsoever. If your product is good it will spread through word-of-mouth and through professional opinions, e.g. recommendations by clinicians.

And then you as a consumer would have to pay for professional opinions and clinicians. Not for prescription medications, but ordinary products. Bad idea. A better way is to learn about a product through advertisement, and then you can read online reviews to see if the product works as advertised.

Why do you need ads for this? I don't remember the last time I bought something because of an ad. You don't need to pay for professional opinions on everything. I wanted to buy a pair of headphones recently, and so I just scouted the various headphone discussion forums on the internet (head-fi, r/headphones etc) and there was a lot of high quality information and opinions and I was able to make an informed purchase while paying nothing extra. It is very rare that I'm looking for a product and I can't find recommendations this way, and even if that happens I can ask my friends. The best part is that they probably don't gain anything from you buying some product, and that increases my level of confidence on the veracity of their reviews and recommendations.

At this point I've pretty much trained myself to zone out when I see an ad because it is probably peddling some mediocre crap.

> Ads for legit weight loss products ...

There are none. Or, at least, there are few that the number is indiscernable from zero.

Weight loss is something you should go speak to a trainier or a nutritionist about.

There is no shortcut or product. It’s calories in, calories out based on your resting metabolism + activity. Do not eat processed foods.

Unprocessed whole foods, lots of fiber and micronutrients.

There is no one best specific diet for everyone. There is no one best specific exercise regime. You figure it out from trial and error.

We don’t need ads for this stuff.

How do you know about this? And how do you expect people who don't currently know this to learn about it?

Ads are a way to get someone with a product (which can include knowledge products like cico and diets) to be and to spread the word about those products.

Don't see a lot of ads for broccoli online

> Ads for legit weight loss products should be allowed

Sorry, why? Pinterest is a privately owned company, they are absolutely entitled to decide who they want to let advertise on their own website. Who are you to tell them what content "should" be displayed to their users?

A better analogy would be if wheelchair companies were causing people to be ashamed of using their legs and preying on a societal hatred of "walking people" and making everyone feel like they need a wheelchair to be accepted in society at all.

If weight loss things were FDA approved, effective, and didn't carry the weight of a society that tells people that being overweight (or even just feeling overweight) makes you less respected as a human being, then I'd totally agree with you that they shouldn't be banned outright. But unfortunately with how we currently look at weight loss it's not as simple.

Where I live there are many doctors who don't want to talk with their patients about their weight.

Talking about weight has become off limits for many and this isn't good for them or society.

According to the CDC [1]:

> Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death.

On a personal level, all these health problems suck. In addition to these, obese and even overweight folks have less energy and vitality than they would otherwise have. That sucks, too.

On a societal level, there are so many costs that go along with the healthcare for these.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

I'm torn on this.

On one hand there is a lot of body shaming and there are many fad weight loss diets that don't work and are even unhealthy. Sometimes they are flat out scams that make people who do them a lot of money.

On the other hand, in America being overweight and obese (in the medical sense) is common and the cause of many health problems. In terms of policy (going beyond individuals) the lack of health caused by all of this increases health care costs we have to deal with as a society.

And, the health issues are getting worse and spreading. Or, so I've read.

We need ways to help deal with this.

I guess it depends on whether or not you think weight loss ads drive health. I certainly do not.

Weight loss is a major factor in health. There's a bunch of science on that.

On one hand, Pinterest is taking into account eating disorders going up.

On the other hand, being overweight is talked about with body image and not about the health aspects. Tons of doctors don't even want to address it. My guess is concern about loosing patients or the lack of billing codes for insurance about spending the time on it.

I don't like the fad ads. I also don't really like the lack of people talking about the health aspects either.

Right, you answered a question I didn't ask.

Do weight loss _ads_ drive weight loss?

You didn’t ask a question in the previous comment. So, I commented.

I don’t know what weight loss ads look like. I don’t generally know what any ads look like thanks to blockers. If I were to guessing would guess they aren’t any good.

Yet, I do personally know people who lost weight which lead to better health from weight loss programs. They aren’t the new fads.

I think it’s very much worth talking about weight and health in our culture. Not just the mental health stopping shaming but the physical health around things like heart disease, the biggest killer of Americans according to the CDC.

Your comments are about the value of weight loss. The topic being discussed is weight loss advertisements. That was the purpose of my first comment, and what I meant in my previous comment when I pointed out you were talking about weight loss and not the virtue of weight loss advertisements.

Yes, weight loss is good. No, weight loss advertisements do not drive weight loss.

They aren't banning ads for vegetables or gym memberships. They're just banning what I assume are mostly scams and fake supplements.

Where does it end though? Pretty much every ad there is falls somewhere between "outright scam" and "shit you don't need." Ads are fundamentally hostile and attempt to make you do things you wouldn't otherwise do. You will never see an ad saying "Hike in your local woods," but you will see one saying "buy our backpack and shoes otherwise you aren't really much of a hiker by any stretch like this sexy model draped in our product"

A thing I've noticed about HN is there is always a strong sentiment of "Where will it end?" even for things that are relatively inconsequential and/or objectively good.

If you submit that ads are fundamentally hostile, isn't any reduction in ads fundamentally good?

Tumblr made this decision a long time ago.

I remember the surreal amount of brands who hounded myself and others to post, just getting someone to start a trial paid out $60, and then additional if they paid for the whole treatment. I never took part since I was/am against anything that focuses on eating disorders or anorexia, but there was a time when tumblr would ban your entire account within minutes of a post going up. Truly a hectic time as bans (not suspensions) were without warning sent out to dozens (multiple!) of the top accounts on Tumblr.

Next steps:

1) Ban all ads

2) Remove all Javascript from webbrowser side.

3) Lower bandwidth bills and CPU usage + faster website for all visitors = Profit!

Thanks!

This is a little weird. Excess weight is one of the leading causes of premature death and disability in America, and will probably cost me some years myself.

I think the problem is the number of shady people in the space. Pinterest can either filter them or just ban the category.

It is also the number one factor in Covid mortality, once you discount old age which is non-discretionary.

The problem is not "Weight loss might be a good idea" but that the industry is swarming with scams, unregulated companies, and stuff that is actively harmful to health.

This ban is a critic of how to address excess weight commercially.

> Ads promoting healthy lifestyles, habits or fitness services and products are still allowed on the platform if they do not "focus on weight loss."

“Get thin fast” products do more harm than good, so they’re banning the messaging typically used by that family of goods.

You're not wrong, but nobody that's advertising on Pinterest is helping fix the problem.

Some people can handle their own weight loss, by intentionally altering their relationship to food.

Some people need actual medical help, either counseling, surgery, or something else that has been proven effective to the standards of the FDA.

Nobody needs a bottle of FatBlaster 9000, which has an equal chance of being sawdust or caffeine. And nobody needs to be assaulted by "before and after" shots of two different models who have both been photoshopped to hell and back, presenting an unrealistic idea of what is possible and/or healthy.

There is more than Fatblaster 9000. There are things like Noom which have helped me.

I'm surprised an ad-network hasn't risen up offering to promote the ads others won't; tobacco, alcohol, drugs, weight loss, pyramid schemes, you name it. Some might be legally unavailable, but I don't see what's stopping a rogue advertising network from engaging in the practice.

makes sense, this is a huge area for fraud.

Sort of funny that everyone is getting onto the all-bodies-are-healthy train right as we are on the cusp of getting of FDA-certified, safe and reliable weight-loss drugs for the masses.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaglutide

> It's an expansion of our ad policies that have long prohibited body shaming

Having a BMI* greater than 25 is a risk factor for heart disease, diabetes, stroke, and cancer.

This move is guided by feelings, not facts.

*Yes, everyone knows by now that BMI doesn't apply to people who are very short, very tall, or bodybuilders. There are other measures like body fat percentage or waist-hip ratio that can also be used.

> Ads promoting healthy lifestyles, habits or fitness services and products are still allowed on the platform if they do not "focus on weight loss." The company said it had developed the policy with guidance from the National Eating Disorders Association.

I think it's really easy to lose sight of just how many ads go beyond health and sell an idealized image in order to make money off of people's insecurities. Would you agree that there are probably at least a few ads that do that instead of promoting healthy practices?

Sure. There's a balance somewhere in between idealized images and "Healthy at Every Size".

But if a product is intended for weight loss, I would expect its ads to focus on weight loss...

It's possible that obese people face health risks, but the ads in question (1) do not actually affect those health risks positively, (2) cause other harm that is greater than the health risks associated with obesity, or (3) both.

I would investigate that possiblity before baldly asserting that the decision was guided by feelings and not facts. Just saying "but obesity is dangerous" should not give a free pass to deceptive/harmful weight-loss ads.

EDIT to complete the thought: If Pinterest did the analysis to determine that all or almost all weight-loss ads are deceptive or harmful, then just cutting them off is the right thing, and is based on facts, not emotion. I don't know if that's the case, but you need to know that piece before you can say for sure it was based on emotion.

Two notes:

1) Shaming is a bad idea, even in that case. We see this in all manner of public health policies - shame isn't particularly effective as a motivating tool. It also leads to poor outcomes - like people with obesity getting measurably worse care and skinny people being under-tested for heart disease and diabetes because those are "fat people diseases".

2) Not all weight loss is the same. Carefully constructed diet and appropriate exercise tailored to your goals under the supervision of a doctor? Great. Some pill from an unregulated supplement manufacturer? Not great.

As a professor of mine once put it, the swiftest way to drop your BMI is to suddenly have one leg and both arms amputated. But few of us would say that's healthy weight loss.

I wonder if we can get Pinterest to take down deodorant ads because they cause smell shaming.

It's shaping up to be a great decade.

future headline: pinterest reinstates weight loss ads

(like google and facebook reinstateing crypto ads)

This is a very sensible move. It has been scientifically proven that weight loss is impossible for any extended period of time.

Edit: This is satire. Anecdotally it is very difficult to lose weight for a number of reasons.

What? Once you're overweight, you will be overweight forever? Surely we can have more hope than that! My father has lost a lot of weight and kept it off for years, it gives me hope that I can live a more healthy lifestyle.

To clarify, there are exceptions bit the vast majority of people are overweight because of metabolic imbalances like high cortisol and insulin resistance. There is no way to escape that without addressing the root causes. Maybe your father did, this is an achievement. I wish hin all the best.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. Could you please explain what you mean? Studies have shown that temporary diets (as opposed to lifestyle changes) rarely lead to long-lasting weight loss, but that's a far cry from "it has been scientifically proven that weight loss is impossible".

This doesn't make any sense without context and a citation.

Edit: Seeing that response, I think your top-level comment is a victim of Poe's Law...

I assumed it was common knowledge. Happy to share to source[1]

1: https://www.theonion.com/new-study-finds-it-is-impossible-to...

The Onion is satire. Either you're unaware of that, or your initial post was satire that just missed the mark.

Poes Law applies and I feel the only way out is doubling down. Which makes me cringe because I value HN discussion culture very much.

> It has been scientifically proven that weight loss is impossible for any extended period of time.

Weight loss fads and fad diets don't keep the weight off. But, there are methods to change ones diet to be a healthy diet and along with that weight is lost long term. In addition to weight coming off, someone can have more energy and vitality along with a lower probability of getting diseases. There is a bunch of scientific literature on this.

Garbage.

>It has been scientifically proven...

Please cite said scientific sources.

For instance: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/an-epidemic-of-...

That is just an examination of the overall rise of obesity. The abstract does not discuss anything related to how it may have studied and tracked individuals who were obese, lost that weight, and whether or not it was able to remain lost.

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