Duolingo S-1 | Hacker News Reader

Duolingo S-1

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29 pointsmaluta29 comments

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27668370

I really liked the initial version of Duo Lingo but I've found it increasingly less fun to use as all the engagement hacking has crept into the site.

I expect that will accelerate and things will start falling behind a pay wall soon.

I don't mind pay walls even remotely but I hate the bait and switch which is the mainstay of startup products. I guess I understand that it is often the only way to reach enough customers to have a chance at all, but it still sucks.

Also, I personally hate gamification, even when it is operating over something I want to do. It feels condescending and manipulative. I'm an adult. I can learn things without earning little virtual jewels and shit.

Used it to "learn" German for a while. It was fun in the beginning, but as I progressed I noticed that it became more into "gaming the tool" to let you pass to the next level than learning, even to the extent I had to answer many questions in a non-idiomatic way because I learned that's what Duolingo expects me to answer.

Honestly, I don't see how they can be a profitable stock exchange based company. The value proposition to the customers is just not there. Unless they have an extraordinary sales team that can secure a bunch of enterprise contract out of thin air, I don't see how they can be much more than just another language learning website.

There are lots of companies that sign with enterprises to provide a language learning perk to employees.

But you're right, I can't imagine them leveraging that to some kind of billion dollar valuation and success on the NYSE

I have been beginning myself, what apps/sites/methods would you reccomend?

The most effective way of learning a language is still a classic way. Book a language course, with an actual teacher, try to read as much as possible, watch movies, and when you are up to talk, talk, talk, ...

IMHO, no app can help learn a language except as a vocabulary learning helper, in which case something as simple as Anki flashcards app is good enough.

After a recommendation in the previous discussion[1], I signed up for Busuu. So far, I have a feeling that I'm learning more (and in a more structured way).

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27668370

It’s slightly funny that the names comes from a Bantoid language, but they don’t offer any Bantoid languages besides a course of the name-giving Busuu language.

It's also Japanese for "ugly".

Wow thanks for the recommendation, loving it so far.

I'm not a fan of Duolingo because it seems to just try to teach you a bunch of random words and sentences. Not very fun or useful for retention. Also you have to go through each lesson in sequential order so it's not like you can skip the random lessons you don't care about.

I much prefer learning through conversation, like what the Pimsleur's method tries to emulate. Both more fun and more useful. Busuu so far seems to center more on practical real world conversation, which is exactly what I was looking for. I hope Duolingo goes towards the same route.

I've asked people who did 1000 days of Duolingo if they learned the language. Unanimously they answered No.

I had a similar experience.

It reminds me of Stardew Valley, the game is addictive, but it's not rewarding.

Have they (and you) been learning language in other ways concurrently with Duolingo, or relying exclusively on Duolingo?

I find it's a useful adjunct to immersion or in-person language learning. Not a complete way to learn language in and of itself (though I question if such a thing exists at all).

It's a good tool but it's not enough to learn a whole new language. As a user it helped me a lot to memorize new words and also to easily understand common sentences and expressions. For speaking and writing skills is much more limited and you would need a teacher and real-world practice.

But I used Duolingo + Anki for all the vocabulary stuff and then I could focus the paid lessons on grammar + writing + speaking to be more effective (and save time & money)

Why is Stardew Valley not rewarding? Do you have an example of a game that you find rewarding?

I don't think he means that there is anything wrong for Stardew Valley, a game, to not be "rewarding" (and thereby rewarding here is defined as something beyond entertaining). But if Duolingo as a learning tool is like that too.. that's a problem.

I learned a language living in the country where it is spoken, mainly using DuoLingo for vocabulary and reading comic books for idiomatic usage. I don't get a tonne of practice because of lockdown but DuoLingo plus immersion definitely got me way further than I could have done without it.

> It reminds me of Stardew Valley, the game is addictive, but it's not rewarding.

For me, the reward is relaxing.

I'm at bit over 800 days of Russian and French.

I didn't really expect to learn Russian, but it did give me a place to start. I now use books and Youtube to keep practising.

The French course is funny because the English is a bit broken sometimes.

My goal was never to become proficient, so Duolingo met my needs very well.

I did about a year of Duolingo. I didn't learn the language, but I learned enough that I had a chance. It is hard to learn a language, and Duolingo is a good first step: it gives you a good grasp of the most common words/grammar - enough that you can jump into something that is fun (that is you can understand enough content to do something other than focused study).

There are better ways to learn a language, but there is no method that has every possible language you might want to learn. DuoLingo is a tool in the toolbox, use it and move on. Very few tools will actually go from 0 to fluency in a language.

The sense of progression in Duolingo seems to falter after a while. It's nice to brush up on basics, but it doesn't last long before you wonder whether you're using your time efficiently or just making yourself feel good about doing something when using the tool. Which is one irony of the gamification that also happens to annoy the crap out of me.

I actually went back and used it a bit the other day, and the day after, I was getting blasted with push notifications and e-mails. Part of Duolingo doesn't seem to value your time and attention span in a way that gets kind of tiresome.

> It's nice to brush up on basics

Absolutely. You can't use it exclusively. Services like Chatterbug are much more complete for actual learning.

Edit: I should also include, though, that I spend like 10x on Chatterbug what I spend on Duolingo.

I've never felt "all-in-one" or generic learning tools are really of any good beyond learning the basics.

For instance for me learning Japanese I use probably up to 5-10 apps regularly to learn the entire scope of what japanese requires.

I am currently using duo, anki, some textbooks and on-site courses with small groups (<10).

What apps are you using, for eg. grammar?

My entire list of apps i use on Android is:

Lingodeer + lingodeer plus (paid version it got a 1 time payment with 50% discount)

- This is my duo replacement it works great for grammar since you get a more detailed explanation of grammar rules.

Kanji study + kanji tree

- These are far from perfect but works for recognition learning.

Tae Kim's learn Japanese app

- Nothing fancy but its better for mobile.

Lastly I would've recommended Eler, but its turn itself into a micro transaction app.

Essentially it was an apology to get help with reading japanese news.

Revenue up almost 5x from Q1/2019 to Q1/2021, yet they are still bleeding money since losses also went up almost 5x. Bad sign for a platform business.

What are they even going to do with the money? More languages? Teaching to a higher level?

Seems more like cashing in on frothy market (or cashing out some VCs)

1 to 1 language lessons with certified instructors

"we lose money on every sale, but make it up in volume" comes to mind.

This is exactly the unicorn approach. and that is what VC are looking for, market share above else. We will sort out finances later.

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