When I was younger I needed a bunch of vaccinations to travel to certain countries and I, and I and many like me, took them without hesitation. I had vaccinations at school when I was younger and my children had vaccinations for childhood diseases. I really don't understand why people think this vaccination is any different to the many others that have been developed and used in my lifetime.
I do not think they should be made mandatory, but people should expect that some things will require them to have them and not being vaccinated will limit them from undertaking some activities. If they are happy with that then by all means remain unvaccinated but don't assume you are being oppressed because you can't go on holiday or attend a sports event that requires it.
Why? I am not anti-vax. Here are my three reasons:
Emotional reason: The politics and media frenzy and the strident, aggressive nature of the "get vaccinated" crowd, which is largely the same people who advocated lockdowns have pissed me off.
Personal reason: I have confidence I will weather an infection just fine. I am 55, reasonably fit, no comorbidities and not obese. In the last 8 years, I've had 4 days off work "sick" (they were all hangovers / still drunk after a late party). I'm a teacher so I get exposed to every cold and flu the kids get every year, but I don't get sick.
"Political" reason: As a protest, I won't get vaccinated with a Western vaccine because Russian/Chinese vaccines aren't recognised in Europe, where I live(yet). What bullshit is that ?
No disrespect, but this is probably the worst reason to make any decision. Do you also reject good diet and exercise because of the "be healthy!" crowd? Do you reject antibiotics because of the "infections are bad!" crowd?
> Personal reason: I have confidence I will weather an infection just fine.
Everyone thinks that until they're on a ventilator. You're not special. No one is. Healthy 30 year olds have ended up dead. You may end up fine, you may end up in the ground, or you may end up with covid long-haul syndrome that leaves you permanently incapacitated.
And that's ignoring the fact that if you get covid you'll spread it to others and endanger their health as well; people who might not be vaccinated because they have no choice due to health reasons (allergies, compromised immune systems, etc).
Worse, as a teacher, you're exposed to children who would bring the infection back into their homes. Do you want to be the reason some kid's mother or grandfather dies from covid?
It's not just about you.
> "Political" reason: As a protest, I won't get vaccinated with a Western vaccine because Russian/Chinese vaccines aren't recognised in Europe, where I live(yet). What bullshit is that ?
I don't know what this means, but if your first reason not to get vaccinated was silly, this is downright ridiculous.
Of course not. If I get a dangerous bacterial infection, I'll take an antibiotic, but that doesn't fit with the situation I am responding to. I'm not sick with the coronavirus. I don't believe it will kill me or even seriously effect me.
More importantly, for me. I don't like people pressuring me to do something for which they can't give 100% solid reasons. It's like a gf saying, don't have another beer now, you've had enough. I am more likely to have another beer after that. I don't like people telling me what to do. I'm like, "fuck u". I don't say that, but I get another beer, because it's my life, and a part of having a life is resisting control by people who think they know better.
Also, what is "good diet"? I know what works for me, and it's not what "the authorities" have been saying since the late 70s
> Worse, as a teacher, you're exposed to children who would bring the infection back into their homes. Do you want to be the reason some kid's mother or grandfather dies from covid?
This is exactly the sort of stridency I react negatively to. As far as I know, I haven't had it. Maybe a third of my pupils have. Maybe half of the families of pupils in my class have had it. About 5% of my colleagues have had it, including my boss who literally sneezed on me two days before she tested positive.
I get tested twice a week and would obviously isolate if I had a positive test, so I really don't think I'm going to kill anyone's grandma.
> I don't know what this means, but if your first reason not to get vaccinated was silly, this is downright ridiculous.
Well, as openly acknowledged, my first reason has to do with my personality and my allergy to controlling narratives. But if all the crap about this virus that the "lockdown/vax" crowd spreads is true, they would happily embrace both the Chinese and Russian vaccines and use them to supplement their own Western vaccines. Something else is going on, and I suspect it's profit and politics (which in the West, is apparently now the same thing).
As a parent my reaction to this is a severe WTF?! Our kids cannot get vaccinated, but they are forced to spend six hours with you every day. Your profession in particular makes your choice not just about you.
As well, I’m not comfortable with the fact that THIS is the only way out of the pandemic. I’m waiting also on the ivermectin clinical trials (and others) to be “official” despite many studies have confirmed it reduces covid symptoms. Vaccines have become so political that I am with another poster here where I don’t want to be pressured to make a hasty decision on my health when I’ve done a lot of research and have taken my own risk based decision.
Doesn’t mean I’ll never get it but everyone says to make a data driving decision and I’ve made mine on the data we have right now.
There is something political but not scientific in situation with vaccines. For example, if I'll make and public a video of why I do not want to take this vaccine, I'll get a ban on Youtube and Facebook. Another example, Russian vaccines are not counting as vaccines in Europe, wat? Btw I do not like travelling so I do not need a special permission to travel.
Also, there is no evidence that vaccine save me from any mutation of coronavirus. Would be stupid to take a vac and to catch a covid soon. So, my choice is to wait.
Btw, I am young and do not afraid this disease that much. Several of my neighbours have died from it, but all of them are 50+ and drunk driving has taken more lives of my friends for the last year and a half. Also I am so elusive that have managed to not catch a covid even when all of my roommates were sick :)
Last but not least is that I think I am ready to face all the outcomes of not being vacced. Bored waiting for fourth wave and miss to see a crowd in sometimes really goureous masks.
"I don't want to take a vaccine because a private company bans me if I say I don't want to take it"
How's that logical ? Also, source?
> Also, there is no evidence that vaccine save me from any mutation of coronavirus. Would be stupid to take a vac and to catch a covid soon. So, my choice is to wait.
Here is the deal, the more people get infected the more likely we are to get new variants. There are plenty of studies showing that all vaccines offer good to very good protection against every current variants.
> Last but not least is that I think I am ready to face all the outcomes of not being vacced.
All good then, be ready to pay out of your pocket for tests every time you want to go out, &c.
> Another example, Russian vaccines are not counting as vaccines in Europe, wat?
What do you mean?
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine#Aut...
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_COVID-19_vaccine_autho...
If they can't prove its efficiency and safety it shouldn't be used. That's a positive thing
I must be missing the point.
Russia and the EU are disagreeing about a looot of things all the time since Russia and the EU exist.
"I'm not taking vaccine X because vaccine Y isn't allowed in my country", you do you but this isn't logical.
It might be logical if you hate that companies :) But seems I was wrong because Youtube rules never tells about ban but only about demonetisation the "medical misinformation" https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9803260?hl=en ; I dont know why but Russian version of this document is twice as long as English and it tells that something is just gonna be unmonetized and something is forbitten without telling about outcomes from publish forbitten content. FB surprisingly is more democratic and recently allowed to tell a version that the virus has leaked from a lab. Maybe I should be less like hating or maybe there is a sence to make that video.
> the more people get infected the more likely we are to get new variants.
How about the more variants we get the better vaccines we will receive?
> There are plenty of studies showing that all vaccines offer good to very good protection against every current variants.
Do you know what time vaccine is working? I can not consult with a doctor in my location, but they say (not medical workers) a vac stops protecting from covid after half a year.
> What do you mean?
Sputnik V has not yet been approved by the EU's European Medicines Agency https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56735931
I can guarantee you you're not winning any sort of fight against Facebook and YouTube by not getting vaccinated.
> https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9803260?hl=en
It doesn't say anything about getting banned. Are you complaining you can't monetize videos about covid being spread by 5g &co? Or the part about licking toilet seats? Seems reasonable to me.
> How about the more variants we get the better vaccines we will receive?
Source? If you don't get infected you're not a mutation vector.
> a vac stops protecting from covid after half a year.
Source?
> Sputnik V has not yet been approved by the EU's European Medicines Agency
Isn't that proof that they actually ask for proofs of vaccination safety and efficiency before authorizing them? Which is a good thing
You seem very focused on Russia, if you don't live there I'd recommend you to focus on something else.
I believe that FB or YT is not a fighter but a fightee. They both have a long list of restrictions in their terms of service, but their censure cases is not their decision (but I do not want to develop this off-topic).
> It doesn't say anything about getting banned
And it doesn't have a "forbidden" word. Russian version is longer and has that word (but it doesn't say anything about ban, and about punishes, I have already realised I was a little misinformed). Here is the version, you can read it via translator if you want: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9803260?hl=ru
> Source? If you don't get infected you're not a mutation vector.
My point is that I consider a good thing having as many mutation vectors in the world as possible, it makes future vaccines more powerful.
>> a vac stops protecting from covid after half a year. >Source?
1. One Russian expert has written in 1990 that flu vaccines are working only 1 year https://medi.ru/info/6639/ (sorry for Russian language) 2. https://www.aier.org/article/who-deletes-naturally-acquired-... (not a proof but an indicator that something is wrong with 2019-nCoV study) 3. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CG4DGTQ/ have not read this book but I have read a blog of its Russian author and have a roughly understanding what this book is about.
> Isn't that proof that they actually ask for proofs of vaccination safety and efficiency before authorizing them?
One set of people has one criteria of efficiency, another set of people has another criteria. That does not look like scientific approach, but a religion one. I want these sets of people to make a consensus.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but all Stage III results of any vaccine is interim, which means that any person taken a vaccine is an object of experiment. Why to run in a front of a train?
> You seem very focused on Russia, if you don't live there I'd recommend you to focus on something else.
I live in Ukraine, we are hostile countries but we are speaking same language and I believe we share same culture and mentality.
- vaccines are unsafe
- vaccines are inefficient
- vaccines are efficient but we shouldn't take them to let the virus mutate so that we can engineer better vaccines for future hypothetical viruses (but I guess you wouldn't take these anyways for the same reasons you already mentioned)
> Why to run in a front of a train?
Everything indicates that the vaccines are safer than covid on literally every single metric available. You don't want to be a "test subject" for the vaccine but you're OK being a test subject for the virus? Feel free to do so but again, the logic seems very weak
Not my words and not my point of view
> - vaccines are inefficient
Not my words, but I have read a study that tells a vaccine is efficient for 1 year. If I live in village and almost do not have contacts with people and do not plan to travel anywhere outside my village in nearest 1 year, isn't it wise to live that 1 year without a vac and take it after 1 year?
> but we shouldn't take them to let the virus mutate
This is not a cause for not taking the vaccine. Just a little counter-argument to statement that not taking the vaccine leads to danger (for society) expressed in mutations.
> Everything indicates that the vaccines are safer than covid on literally every single metric available.
Not in every. Imagine the vaccine is 100 times safer than a covid and imagine my probability to catch a virus is 1/1000 due to very few contacts in my village. So, math tells us that not taking a vac for that one year is these conditions is 10 times safer for me.
I guess it depends on how many wives and children depend on you.
This is absolutely not true. The vaccine make COVID—even the variants—a much less dangerous disease. It would be stupid not to take the vaccine if you might later be exposed to COVID in any form.
Wait for what?
At least the people you see on the TV advising you get vaccinated are qualified, informed people. Those on fb/socail media telling you you dont need it wouldnt know a peer reviewed study if it hit them in the face.
It is a wise point that my opinion might be nothing except my laziness and stupidity of my friends whose opinions I'm being influenced with. But anyway I am not interested to rush, do not have a desire to visit other countries and do not have needness to contact people offline (except few friends, neighbours and collegues).
Maybe my main reason is that I do not think that it will be harder to get a dose tomorrow than today, and I am almost sure that tomorrow's vaccines will be more secure than today's. So, let all that rushers who is required to take a vaccine will be objects of experiment and I will be an observer.
>At least the people you see on the TV advising you get vaccinated are qualified, informed people.
Watching TV has some rules in our lands. For example, if a qualified and informed person tells that our local currency will grow very soon, everybody are going to banks asap for buying some Euro/Dollars and this is not a joke.
I dont want to find out that in 10 years coronavirus is fucking up something vital. If there was a HIV vaccine available today I would take it, even though my chances of infection are incredibly low, because the downside is massive and the vaccine risk is low. Same with coronavirus, perhaps its just a bit like flu, but I dont want to wait 10 years to find out i was wrong.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/27/delta-variant-outbreak-in-isra...
So just because you're vaccinated presumably doesn't mean you can't still infect other people.
Do you want to wait for bulletproof solution and just let people die in the meantime?