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Comment by Tijdreiziger | Hacker News Reader

Please enlighten us on why that would absolve any individual from their moral duties.

Because framing collective action problems caused by a very small powerful minority of people as mass moral issues is how we all fucking die.

In fact, you have a moral imperative to stop doing this, since you are covering for the actual actors with bad morality by misrepresenting where the moral failing lies.

> you are covering for the actual actors with bad morality by misrepresenting where the moral failing lies

Corporations have no moral values, only a profit motive. The only way to improve them is through legislation. Legislation is written by politicians, who are elected by individuals*. Therefore, individual awareness is in fact _the only way we have*_ to lower CO2 emissions.

* in functioning democracies

"* in functioning democracies"

Who cares about this theoretical BS though? It's useless. The model isn't predictive. Those are spherical cows. At this point we know the areas where public support is most detached from policy and it always corresponds to wealth.

So just start using the adult model of the world already.

OK, wait. You said that individual action making a difference was a fairy tale. Now you're saying that democratic action is useless because it runs counter to the interests of the rich.

So... what do you think is a useful, workable approach?

Functioning democracies are theoretical?

10% of MEPs (Members of European Parliament) are already Greens. 9% of the Dutch parliament is [GreenLeft + Party for the Animals], and that's not even counting the Labour party (who have similar policies). 9% of the German Bundestag is Greens. Are all those representatives spherical cows? Were they all voted in by the wealthy?

Sure, 10% of legislators isn't huge in the grand scheme of things. But again, _the only way_ to increase that percentage is for the people to go out and vote, and that road starts with awareness.

In no other area do we kindly request people not to do bad and damaging things.

You don't tell the public "Drink driving is really bad, so please be considerate and don't do it". Instead you ban drink driving and vigorously enforce the ban.

Yes, and I eagerly await the day governments around the world impose hefty CO2 taxes. Until that day comes, again - why would we be absolved of our moral duties?

Is it really necessary for everyone to eat meat every day? (30% of Western Europeans already say no [1].) Is it really necessary for everyone to buy a new smartphone every year?

[1] https://veganz.com/blog/veganz-nutrition-study-2020/

To be clear, I agree with you and make my best efforts but I know that there is no way that requiring individuals to apply restrictions to themselves is going to work. Seeing how little effect it has had vs tiny changes from government having massive effects.

Yes, I agree with you too :) Government action is definitely needed and I'll be among the first to advocate as such. That notwithstanding, I think we also each have a duty to examine our own lifestyles critically. Like I wrote in a reply to another user - in 2019, 60 flights took off every day from Amsterdam to London (just a 4-hour journey by rail) - someone's taking all those flights.

It doesn't. The point is that neither does recycling, or whatever.

Because by focusing on individual action it has the impact of absolving corporations of their moral duties. It is the same with public health.

No, I didn't imply that at all. Legislation must come from governments and corporations must pay their part - but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't look critically at our own actions.

Did you know that in 2019, 60 flights departed from Amsterdam to London every day [1] - just a 4-hour journey by rail [2]? Clearly someone's taking all those flights.

Re: public health - I don't exactly understand the argument you're trying to make.

[1] https://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/241554/londen-populairste-bes...

[2] https://www.nsinternational.com/en/england/london-by-train

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