Starting in 2023, Windows 11 will require new laptops to have a front webcam | Hacker News Reader

Starting in 2023, Windows 11 will require new laptops to have a front webcam

windowscentral.com

39 pointsrolph40 comments

This just means that if these laptops are going to have Windows 11, they need to have a camera. It's not that the OS will not work without it. It's just MS saying, "You need a camera on your laptop." It's no different than all Macbooks having a camera, except Microsoft is dictating the OEM market needs to adhere to that standard.

You’re exactly right in your statement. But of all the experiences they could control, the most important is a webcam?

That webcam is placed on an OS known for intrusive advertising and data collection, with OEMs known for pushing pre-installed software that’s invasive, if not full-blown malware.

You’re exactly right about the facts. The problem is the perception of the theme here.

I'm fairly certain that the reason for it has more to do with standardizing laptops to always have webcams and that it's expected now that work from home is a more commonly accepted thing. Also every phone has a camera. It's not like this is a new concept in hardware requirements.

Requiring cameras to laptops sounds like a better feature than having to waste time finding out "does it have a camera." Especially ensuring they have to be hi-res. Phones have had cameras forever. I don't get how the expectation that a laptop should not have a camera. It's not like it's any more invasive than the geolocation data google siphons constantly.

This is most certainly a security initiative to standardise biometrics (Windows Hello). Windows wants everyone to use their “FaceID” because it’s more secure.

I'll believe that biometric security measures are more secure when they are fully protected under the Fifth Amendment, rather than by a few shaky court cases that could be overturned.

https://slate.com/technology/2019/01/fifth-amendment-biometr...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/01/14/feds-...

I own 7 laptops, and with the exception of a ~1995 ThinkPad, they all have webcams builtin.

None of these will ever run Windows 11 (or any other version), but of all the things I have heard so far about Windows 11, this is relatively low on my outrage list. (Okay, strictly speaking, the ancient ThinkPad runs Windows 95, but I don't actually use it, I just keep it because I like old hardware.)

Reporting seems hyperbolic. What happens if your hardware doesn't have a camera? OS won't load or boot?

Presumably it's saying OEMs will not be allowed to sell laptops with copies of windows preinstalled unless the laptop has a camera.

WTAF? Was this supposed to be some kind of security thing?

This misreads the room so badly on where people are at in 2021 when it comes to the idea of tech companies and consumer privacy.

This looks like part of their push to passwordless. Decent camera plus TPM means that FaceID style unphishable FIDO2 credentials can become default moving forward.

It also means that you can't use computers running Windows 11 inside secure areas.

> It also means that you can't use computers running Windows 11 inside secure areas.

It means you can't use computers running retail editions of Windows 11 inside secure areas.

These kinds of requirements will absolutely not be mandatory under enterprise / volume licensing.

And how do you handle letting someone else use your machine?

You install Linux and tell Microsoft to fuck off with their stupid ideas.

So nice to be beaten to the chase. It's almost eerie reading a sentence that is nearly verbatim to what just went through my head.

That's not really the best argument in favor of passwords.

> This misreads the room so badly on where people are at in 2021 when it comes to the idea of tech companies and consumer privacy.

(Some) Tech people, politicians, and politicos, sure.

The average person still uses Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, Twitter, Google services, and/or believes Apple's marketing on respecting user privacy.

Also, this is 2 years out. Either there will be major changes between now and then which will result in a change to this decision, or there wont. I wouldn't put my money on the former.

I know several pretty 'average' computer users with a piece of tape in front of their laptop camera.

The article is light on details, but of course there's always this:

> For those concerned with privacy, this means a trip to the office supply store to grab more tape with which to cover up the pesky little lenses.

-I am surprised not more vendors of laptops have done like Lenovo does (at least on the X1 series) - there's a plastic slider which goes over the lens, showing a bright orange dot when it has disabled the camera.

Seems so cheap, simple and useful that there probably is a patent keeping others from doing it. Sigh.

Good luck with that https://old.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfuckery/comments/kaxn0j/s...

Also good luck taping up the microphone.

Isn't the remote made out of IR-transparent plastic? The privacy shields you tape onto a webcam should be IR-opaque. (Or they should be redesigned).

I believe best practice to disable a microphone is superglue over the membrane.

Even if not, if the camera is required for login/screen unlock, have fun removing and reapplying that tape several dozen times a day.

It's not. You can use a PIN or a password.

Thank you, Microsoft! Thousands, potentially millions, of users will be motivated to migrate to other OSes, also thanks to Windows 11 insane hardware requirements they will find tons of essentially free hardware that will run their new OS with no issues.

Sometimes I laugh at arguments like this, sometimes I get pissed of. You are seriously disconnected from reality if you think this will change anything except all laptops having a front webcam. I haven't seen one without it ever anyways

This website is an echo chamber many times more niche than other social websites. It’s mainly tech nerds with very similar beliefs and backgrounds. Opinons here, as with most websites, should be taken with a grain of salt.

There are some realities I may have been connected in the past, in which a laptop with a camera cannot enter if it is yours, and won't have a camera at all if it's from the employer.

The point however was Microsoft imposing unnecessary hardware requirements, and my comment stands since from a Linux (BSD, whatever) point of view, lots of Windows users ditching their perfectly good few years old PC means a huge load of good hardware to be taken almost for free since our demand would never match the huge offer.

Regarding messing with hardware requirements, I seem to recall Microsoft did a similar thing when they dictated that netbooks up to a certain size could not have more than this CPU and that amount of RAM to be eligible for receiving discounted OEM XP copies; it was called ULCPC or something like that. In that case they didn't set the minimum bar, but the maximum one. Which of course also produced tons of garbage since netbooks too slow or non upgradeable over 1 Gig RAM became hard to use with Linux too.

Your last paragraph goes against your original thesis. Whatever Microsoft did. It didn’t impact much at all. There was no migration. Netbooks aren’t even a thing any more outside Chromebooks.

The point doesn’t stand since there won’t be some exodus of users switching to Linux.

None of my friends or likey acquaintances who aren’t programmers or in related fields including a handful who sometimes or frequently keep up with general tech/gadget news, can tell you a Linux distro name. They likely can’t tell you what a distro is. I’m sure if I was to say Ubuntu they would say yes they have heard of it of are a bit familiar, but that’s the extent of it.

What laptop doesn't have a front webcam especially one that is at least 720p (I assume that is what is considered hd)? You can buy a $150 laptop and it likely would work.

Some so called gaming laptops don't. The Asus G14 for example was a series of extremely popular and well reviewed laptops without a front webcam. They where even quite popular with developers since they offered class leading CPU and GPU performance in a relatively lightweight package.

Thanks. I didn't realize that. I assumed with the size of gaming laptops they would all have webcams.

Dell also at least used to offer some of their Latitude laptops without webcams, probably targeting people and industries working in situations where cameras in certain areas where forbidden.

Virtually none of the recent crop of UMPCs have them. At that size, they just don't fit in the screen bezel. One model has a camera in the hinge, but most just don't bother.

This won’t do anything in the realm of millions of users. I’m not even sure what the lazy part is trying to say. What OS are these supposed people moving to? It’s not Linux. It’s likely not Mac as moving to that will be for other reasons, not this...especially when every MacBook and iMac has a front facing camera.

Oh dear.

On top of that, the new Windows 11 OEM laptops will probably come with Windows 11 Home pre-installed and requires a Microsoft Account, which not only I warned against two years ago [0], but is an instant no deal.

Comes to no surprise as to how Microsoft really wants to collect everything about you. Even if it you get a laptop with a Pro version installed, they will still make it harder for you to avoid a Microsoft account.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21137699

Hahaha nope nope nope. I gave up at windows 7. Windows 8 sucked and Windows 10 was a spyware OS. Now they are not even hiding it!!! Beware of consumer software, operating systems and hardware. By Jove, it’s like someone warned us about this 30+ years ago.

So much speculation in this thread but I haven't heard anyone ask why Microsoft is requiring this. The article as well as the linked Microsoft specification document does not say. I'm very curious as to why.

this would be the first logical step to promote wide compatibility with hello, and other facial recognition functions

I suppose the next logical step is to not allow a user to log in unless the camera is operative and can detect a face.

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