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You're not really voicing your dissent at that point. The server gets no tip and doesn't get any indication why. Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.

> Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager?

We're talking patron UX here and point is I don't what to shoulder the burden. I didn't even want to calculate 15% tip in my head and you want me to start carrying cash everywhere, something I haven't done since Y2K was a concern. Spend 15 minutes waiting for the manager to come over? No thanks.

> Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.

I view that as "not my problem". I know it's wrong if the server gets screwed, I'm not arguing this is a just behavior on my part. But, if you extrapolate my behavior to all patrons the restaurant would get a hint real quick that people didn't want to tip 20%/25% and reduce the defaults. They know I'm dissenting it's just that I'm the only one dissenting so they're not even paying attention. Instead, what is happening is the opposite. Patrons were conditioned that 15% is too low. 20% is now standard, pushing up to 25% which will be standard in a couple years if trend continues.

FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.

Not only does the "recommended" tipping amount keep going up, but in a lot of discussions there's the additional bullshit of waiters saying "Well 25% is the bare minimum, (if you're a total jerk), but if you tip 35% we'll really take care of you!"

To me, a waiter provides no value at all. I'd rather order at a counter and pick up the food myself. Then I don't have someone asking me "how is everything" when my mouth is full. I don't need to pay someone a 30% cut for this.

Yes. The discussions I've seen from waiter expectations like you mention is what has soured me the most on tipping.

Also, I don't feel like my check size is very related to the amount of work involved. At least in my 95% use case of 2-4 people. The waiter does the same thing, checks in on us just as much, still juggling 5-10 other tables. I'm there for an hour. I just don't see $15-30 of value in the service I got during my interaction (my typical check size is $50-100), that's where I land back on my 15% standard. I don't always see that value either, but it's what helps me sleep at night.

If I'm with 5+ people or stay longer than an hour or am eating at a higher priced place where waiter is probably serving fewer tables simultaneously then I adjust accordingly.

Another irk of mine is how alcohol falls into this equation. If I buy a $50 bottle of wine I'm supposed to give $10 tip when usually all they do is open the bottle? My rule is a dollar per serving. It's probably outdated rule and needs some adjustment for inflation as that's been my rule for a long time.

>It's probably outdated rule and needs some adjustment for inflation

Honestly if the minimum wage was increased appropriately we wouldn't have to bother with tipping at all.

This is the real problem. Unfortunately big business has politicians by the balls, so this is unlikely to happen.

Billionaires get tax breaks while the lowest-paid workers buying power goes down every year without fail.

And no guillotines because they're all too busy trying to keep their head above water. GG billionaires.

< FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.

In several states they are. Washington St. doesn't have a lower minimum wage for servers.

I've visited and really enjoyed that model. I'm in Texas and we're not progressive at all in this realm; or many other realms when comparing to a progressive state like Washington.

You are still expected to tip the same as other states with the $2.13 minimum for tipped employees. In fact, you should be tipping more, so goes the rule of thumb, since cost of living is higher.

In Washington? I don't recall that being the case. I was there around the time they converted about 5 years ago and there were signs everywhere saying that the prices may seem high because they pay their people a living wage. I have to assume that means living wage locally. If waitstaff is wanting a regular tip now, it's just a naturally greedy thing to want as much compensation as you can get. Have their cake and eat it too. American's are passive on this in general and don't negotiate well (we're not used to it). So I think we tend to feel guilted into sheepish behavior instead of challenging the "rule of thumb". The reality is, some jobs just aren't meant to earn big bucks. I support a minimum wage, but you also have to realize that means minimum lifestyle.

Pre-pandemic, some restaurants in my area started adding separate tip lines for servers and kitchen staff. While nice in theory as a way to recognize the work they do it left me feeling confused more than anything. Am I still expected to tip 15-20% or more to the server AND an additional amount to the rest of the staff? Do I split my regular tip amongst both lines? If so, 50-50 or some other breakdown.

In the end, I left my usual tip to the server and zero to the rest and left it for them to figure out, just like in every other restaurant on the planet. Servers make full, much higher than Federal minimum wage in my state plus tips, so really we should be abolishing tipping at this point IMO.

"just like in every other restaurant on the planet"

You mean just like every restaurant in USA. I rarely tip in France, only if I had a really special interaction with the waiter/waitress. Once it was because the waitress was a student we chit chat a bit and ended up talking programming (!). I never tipped once in China (nobody does it there)

I'm pretty sure most patrons would not be comfortable with the server losing money for something they have no control over. I'm certainly not going to refuse to tip them to make some kind of statement that only punishes them.

I guess I don't know how you go from the idea that you are accomplishing nothing while making someone else's day worse to being able to say "not my problem" and go on with your life.

I would much rather they were paid a fair wage. But I'm not going to voice my opinion on that matter by refusing to give them the money that I personally factor in as part of a meal anyway. I get where you're coming from, but I don't see how this method of addressing it is intended to accomplish anything.

> Why not just bring cash to tip

If the point is not to keep calculating the tip, that's worse. And then we would need to wait to get the change on the tip?

>Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.

What a curious statement, American Stockholm Syndrome in full effect.

I'm in Australia and tipping is only really done in the case of exceptional service. The price on the menu is the price you pay. Nobody feels animosity towards someone who pays the price on the menu, and nobody feels guilt for "only" paying the price that was specified.

Also nobody would expect sub-par service or to be disparaged if they don't pay more, as sibling commenters have mentioned.

Much simpler for everyone - why should customers have to do convoluted maths to work out how much to subsidize a business that can't afford to pay their workers? That is pretty much the definition of an unviable business.

A related problem with the apps is that they expand the tipping expectation to all sorts of interactions that were not traditionally tipped, such as ordering at a cash register. You don't need to tip someone just because they have an iPad!

Agree. The worst are the little vendors. I want to support you and all because I love your small batch popsicles, that's why I'm paying $7 each. But, you just took it out of a freezer and handed it to me, this is a pure retail transaction at this point. It's like going to 7-11 and saying, I need $20 on pump 8 and here's $5 for your trouble...

If I have to do math and input in dollar, I do 10%, which is easier to calculate

I've thought about this. My "15%" standard in application is more like. 10% + 50% of 10%, ambiguously round to whole dollar. So if the bill was $45, I think, $4.5 + about $2 is $6.5 so I'll give $6 but maybe I go $7. I never do cents unless it's to force the total to a whole dollar amount (rare).

I'm moving towards a fixed amount. Since, as I mentioned elsewhere I don't see a strict correlation between menu price and work performed. The amount of work to bring me a steak is same as work to bring me a burger; but the steak might cost 3x more. Majority of dining experiences follow the same script and same amount of interaction with waitstaff so I'm thinking of just giving everyone $X and don't even consider what I spent. Maybe adjust up if we had appetizers, extra beverages, or some difficult situation. Having a toddler, I've left my fair share of huge "sorry for the mess" tips and that doesn't bother me at all.

Yep - and now the waitstaff will gossip about you behind your back, give you bad service and thing you’re grumpy old man.

You thought you were dissenting, but it mostly just reflects poorly on you.

Source - brother is a server.

I don't care what someone that behaves that way thinks of me. I seldom repeat to places with bad service. Or if I do, I seldom see the same waiter. In reality, this has zero impact on me except further diminishes my opinion of the "profession" which goes back to my original comment about degrading service and increasing expectations ($) being at conflict