Comment by xyzzy123 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by xyzzy123 | Hacker News Reader

I am fairly hesitant to share this but if I do it I should be willing to talk about it.

I occasionally give my son a sharp tap on the side of the head. I have 3 kids and he is the only one I do this with. Words do not work with him, at least at this age.

This is very close to being illegal where I come from.

I'm careful to do this only when he's say, throwing things recklessly or otherwise engaging in behaviour with real risks to others.

It's not a "clip round the ears" and it's not meant to hurt. It's also not intended as "punishment".

What it is though is a reliable way to get his attention; being honest he just responds much more readily to this than words as a way to communicate "stop now".

Sample size n=1, all families, situations and children are different.

As I write this and think about it I realise there is probably a better way to do this, all suggestions appreciated.

EDIT: previously I found myself yelling, using "stern voice" or physically restraining him before I got to the point of thinking about a "physical signal".

I've done this too, and I have one of "those" hard-headed boys that loves to roughhouse, but I've come to believe there is no escape from "Where attention goes, behavior grows." You might be inflicting a punishment, but you are also granting him zealous attention, which is a drug worth some negative side-effects to their mind.

Withdrawing attention - say, to attend to the kid he's injured in another room - seems to change behavior much more effectively, exactly as the psychological literature predicts. Ignoring violent behavior is extremely difficult, but it can produce surprising results. It's taken a few months of this, but my hardheaded 3 year old has just started expressing sincere apologies.

Thanks for that, I will look at how I can apply this. Makes sense.

What do you do when you need the behaviour to stop e.g. for safety reasons?

In the most frequent circumstance - my 3 year old hitting his 1 year old sister - my first step is to pick her up, give her sympathetic attention, and whisk her out of the room. So safety is no longer an issue, and the hitter has a moment to cool off, which they typically need. More importantly, he's feeling attention drain out of the room - while undramatic, this is enormously impactful. In the psychological conditioning literature, this is called "extinction" - you're taking away the stimulus that he's been looking for.

I'm sure there are circumstances where there's not much choice but to step in, but think hard and creatively about ways to mitigate the safety issue while removing attention. We're so driven to step in and make a scene that this is often painfully difficult.

I have never hit my kid (but my ex-wife has) as for whatever reason, he has an amount of respect for me that my body language alone is enough.

Here is the thing, you probably not doing something wrong. As long it isn't a everyday thing, it isn't so bad as people make it to be. The 'tap' to stop, then talking with him/her works, worked on me when I was a kid, probably the only thing that did to be honest. The 'physical violence' was the awakening call, then the conversation after that grounded it.

ps: if you just slap the living crap of him, say he is bad, and send him to his room without talking with him, then sure, that is an absolutely shitty behaviour, but I don't think this is what you are doing from your text.

People think I am crazy when I says this but I think generally physically "punishment" should mostly be reserved for toddlers and only when in situations where failure to learn the "lesson" could be very dangerous to the child. For example if you see a toddler sticking something in an electrical socket (a very common occurrence because they see adults do it) I think it is very appropriate to sharply smack the child's hand so it stings a bit. It is important for that child's safety to assocate sticking stuff into outlets with pain and there is no way you can explain the risks to a toddler. Once I child has the ability to speak and has basic reasoning I see very little if any use for physical "punishment"

I'm not going for aversion or punishment, it's more like... physical communication.

I think what is going on in my son's brain is that while I am trying to remain calm and tell him to stop flinging the door open and slamming it shut, oblivious to a nearby 1yo, is that what he actually hears is something like the charlie brown "wah wah wah" noise.

His hearing is fine but he can be very inattentive to speech.

I found myself needing a way to get through to him, with restraint and removal as escalation and a proper discussion when I actually have his attention.

I support anti smacking laws as doing more good than harm but I do feel conflicted about being a hypocrite. I'd like to be better.

While I wouldn't consider what you do violence, doesn't something like putting your hand on his shoulder work?

> People think I am crazy

Perhaps there's a reason if people do not agree with you.

> I think it is very appropriate

Pedagogical and psychological practitioners don't think so. What are your credentials?

I was raised catholic. 13 siblings 67 first cousins.

I can see the problem.

I can't can you point it out for me?

What about child-proof power outlets? I can't think of anything similarly dangerous you cannot make inaccessible to a toddler.

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