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Comment by freddie_mercury | Hacker News Reader

I live in SE Asia and I always have to roll my eyes when Americans ask for "real" sriracha. As if it were invented in the 1970s in California and the 100 year old Thai brand on the table is the cheap knock off of American culinary genius....

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As someone who lives in America and regularly sees literal busloads of SE asian tourists, I assure you, they're not any better.

Sure, it happens everywhere. Like with Europeans and their constant condescension about how American chocolate isn't "real".

I roll my eyes at them, too. I don't know why people need to take their personal preferences and elevate it to some kind of moral universal thing.

But this post was about sriracha so I mentioned a sriracha anecdote.

I guess it's about the eyeroll. People are going to be people. Do you want all those American visitors to know everything you do or do you want them to stop visiting I guess is the real question.

I want them not to say "the real one". All they have to say is "the one I'm used to". You don't need to know anything about food or history or sriracha to do that.

> You don't need to know anything about food or history or sriracha to do that.

If you don't know anything about food, you're likely to believe that the one you're used to is the real one.

I feel the same way when Italians talk about pizza. Everyone knows it originated in Korea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLA6Bk_ivs

Spoiler: If you live in Korea long enough, you start to develop the sense that Koreans think everything was invented in Korea. This is obviously not an accurate reflection of Koreans, but Koreans love to share what is unique about their country. This makes it hard not to joke about the idea. And it's enjoyable to see a Korean company making light of the idea.

Ah yes, good ole' "Love For Women."

Please don't post supercilious dismissals and especially not nationalistic flamebait to HN.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27658877.

They (Americans) do that all over the world. Examples I can think of from the top of my head as a EU citizen:

    - pizza pepperoni (Italy)
    - mayonaise (Belgium/France)
    - paella (Spain)

It's also true the other way around: I am 100% sure that if I enter an Exotic restaurant in Belgium, that what I will get is something that has been "tweaked" to suite Belgian taste buds.

Wait...what on earth is American paella?!?!?!

Or mayo for that matter?

Also pizza pepperoni might be an American / Ninja Turtles thing, but I've seen plenty of genuine Italian places that make them with variations of small salame which are very close...

No way you get salami on a pizza pepperoni in Italy, unless you're in a tourist place where they know what Americans expect when order this.

Mayonaise in France/Belgium will have 0 sugar.

Mayonnaise in the US also has zero sugar:

https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/048001213487-0001-en-US/i...

It does have some sugar, it's just very small amounts:

https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/048001213487-0001-en-US/i...

I do wonder how the addition of a tiny amount of sugar, less than the amount of added salt, could even be noticed... let alone enough to request the "real" American version

Click the ingredients tab in your link and you will see sugar listed. You aren't seeing it on the nutrition label because the FDA allows you to pretend there is no sugar as long as you have less than 1g of sugar per serving.

So, make the serving size small enough, and almost anything can show no sugar on the nutrition label.

I believe you can also use the term "sugar free" as long as you have 0.5g or less sugar per serving.

The serving size is 1 tbsp which is a reasonable amount for one serving. It’s a negligible amount of sugar.

The pepperoni pizza thing is not people 'demanding' something different, it's just people incorrectly translating the menu and getting something other than what they where expecting.

And does mayonnaise anywhere have sugar in it.

Helmans does - from the Unilever site:

> Soybean oil, water, whole eggs and egg yolks, vinegar, salt, sugar, lemon juice, calcium disodium edta (used to protect quality), natural flavors.

I’ve had “pepperoni” pizza in Italy at a place where nobody spoke any English. It was filled with locals, not tourists. They had one kind of pizza: whatever they decided to make that day. For a few days it was what I, as an American, would call pepperoni. I don’t remember the local word for it, but it wasn’t pepperoni.

I’m not a fan of typical American mayo, but I’ve never seen it with sugar.

The 'confusion' is that the word "peperoni" in Italian is a bell pepper, so if you see that word on an Italian menu you'll be getting something with bell peppers which might not be what you wanted.

Italians absolutely have pizzas that Americans would recognize as a "pepperoni pizza" (two p's), it just won't be called a "peperion pizza" (one p)

Diavolo? The deep frozen stuff I use as 'base' for additonal topping are called that here in Germany. Basically pizza salami in spicier with some added red onion rings/pieces and those bell peppers in red, green, whole if small, cut in pieces if larger, it varies with the brand/type.

From what I can tell, all the major brands of mayo in the US have some sugar. Though it is not a lot compared to its much sweeter descendant, miracle whip.

I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about "pizza pepperoni" literally, I am talking about pizza with some kind of salame or sausage on it. I know that pepperoni is not sausage in Italian, what I mean is that a pizza with some kind of sausage on it is not a total bastardization of an Italian concept, since it's quite a common topping throughout the country.

Interesting bit about mayo that I've noticed, there's a Japanese-style mayo that's common in Asia. It's made with egg yolks, rice vinegar or apple cider vinegar.

It's much sweeter in taste than Western-style mayo which is made with whole eggs and distilled vinegar.

Personally I find the asian-style mayo far too sweet and "rich", I much prefer the lighter western-style mayo.

You will often see japanese style mayo used on sushi rolls in American sushi restaurants.

Probably with chorizo.

It usually features shrimp and chorizo, while the classic Valencian paella has chicken and rabbit. (There are many regional paella variations but don't tell a Valencian that.)

Eh, this feels kind of like saying some country doesn't do stew right because they use local ingredients.

So chorizo is a local American ingredient? Americans expect chorizo on their paellas because that's one of the few things they know about Spanish cuisine. It's just like them expecting Italians to only eat pizza and pasta, when that's a very small part of the Italian cuisine.

Paella actually has a lot of variations all over spain, and it was a very "what do we have on-hand" kind of food!

My relatives in Madrid have chorizo, shrimp, shellfish, rabbit, chicken, sausage as far as meats I've seen in the paellas they've made.

Chorizo, shrimp, shellfish, and chicken is by far the most common they make. It may also make sense that the paella that "caught on" in the states just hails from a different region of Spain. So "American Paella" may just be closer to a non-valencian paella.

> Paella actually has a lot of variations all over spain, and it was a very "what do we have on-hand" kind of food!

I'm sorry but that's not true at all. Paella allows for some variations, but there's a clear line separating paella from "arroz con cosas". Just because it has rice and is cooked in a wide and short pan doesn't make it paella.

> My relatives in Madrid have chorizo, shrimp, shellfish, rabbit, chicken, sausage as far as meats I've seen in the paellas they've made.

I don't think you can call an orange juice "paella" just because "that's how you cook it".

Paella Valenciana might be that restrictive, but paella… that ship sailed long ago. Paella can even come with orange juice if you are inventive enough (it ought to have orange reminiscences due to The Need to cook it with naranjo wood).

And that “clear line” is source of endless discussions, so not so clear it seems!

Jambalaya.

Or maybe some Americans just prefer the American version...the ones we grew up with.

Example, yeah I know our chocolate supposedly tastes like vomit to Europeans, but eh, it's what we know, and taste fine if you were raised with it.

Edit: This will probably elicit more ire, but I'm genuienly curious why this was downvoted? Is it because of the dislike of American chocolate, or the idea that some people (in this case Americans) like the food they were raised with?

I think that's a bit reductionist. A Milka bar is not that different than a Hershey bar, and snobs turn up their nose at them in both continents.

I'm curious which part you consider reductionist. Also, American milk chocolate proper tastes like vomit to some Europeans/Aussies due to the butyric acid formed during the lipolysis phase of the milk fats. It's exactly that which gives American chocolate its unique (vomit-like) flavor.

Anecdotal, but I couldn't believe it when I heard people hated our chocolate, and asked my decidedly non-snobby English buds and my (non-American) fiancé, and they confirmed it tastes off to them, albeit palatable. However, Hershey's Kisses were a no-go for the fiancé.

Yeah, it's a genuinely different taste. I'm not a big fan of cheap chocolate from Europe or the US any more but I'm definitely more used to the Europe style than the US style. I also can't stand Kisses, they really do taste like they're a year past their best before date to me. All subjective though, isn't it.

Why are you using "American milk chocolate" as a synonym for "Hershey's"?

I mean...

If you had to pick a brand of chocolate to represent "American milk chocolate", would you pick anything but Hershey's?

Huh, I had no idea there was a real difference

> Also, American milk chocolate proper tastes like vomit to some Europeans/Aussies due to the butyric acid formed during the lipolysis phase of the milk fats. It's exactly that which gives American chocolate its unique (vomit-like) flavor.

American milk chocolate and American chocolate aren't the same thing.

Yeah, but American milk chocolate is American chocolate.

I was raised with it and I think Hershey's smells like dog poop.

So it's not just me! It's weird though, because I can still eat it no problem. One of those weird things like cheese where it smelling bad doesn't make it unappetizing.

You're talking to a man that loves him some natto and when I can get my hands on it: durian. Both can clear a room.

I can pretty much eat anything. But, I couldn't even get down one bite of stinky tofu when I was in Taiwan. It tastes exactly like it smells. Still waiting to try some surstromming.

> It tastes exactly like it smells.

Don't know if it will help you but I think the same thing of durian. It smells like rotten food and tastes like rotten food.

I think people have varying degree of sensitivity to the various compounds in the food and that another significant part of it is also linked to what you were exposed to while growing up and the association you made.

In my limited experience surströmming doesn’t taste as bad as it smells (it smells pretty bad). But, it doesn’t actually compensate by tasting good either. So I never saw any point eating it beyond the first try.

I eat it sometimes, but will never choose it if I have an option.

But yeah, for years now, I've been like, uh, people, this literally smells like dog poop, right? Does nobody notice this except me? A few years ago again mystified I googled it and found the butyric acid acid thing. Apparently people more often say "vomit" but to me it's definitely dog poop. SO WEIRD that now this scent/flavor has apparently become well-liked, that other chocolate manufacturers do it on purpose? Just weird. But yeah, people like what they like.

Hershey's is odd, but humans eat plenty of foods that taste or smell strange. Some of those are even considered delicacies. The biggest factor to if one likes them is growing up with it, but of course liking them is not a given.

(German) I didn't grow up with Hershey's but when I tried it, the traditional spoiled milk substance in it tasted like honey to me. And later I read that the substance is indeed found in honey. The honey taste is alright, it's a nice variety on chocolate taste. It's the rest of it that I find slightly subpar for the price - not terrible though. Maybe they sell a different recipe here.

There are high quality cheese that smell like old feet. My wife started out calling Locatelli (my favorite Pecorino Romano) "foot cheese".

> The compounds produced by the Limburger cheese are close enough to human body odor to confuse mosquitoes https://askentomologists.com/2015/09/10/mosquitoes-love-chee...

Just because something has a smell that is reminiscent of some other (unappatizing) thing, doesn't necessarily speak to how good it tastes.

I did outdoor ed and summer camps for decades, and I've never though Hersheys smelled like anything other than doo-doo.

Like actual doo-doo. I remember bringing it by a kybo and doing a smell compare. Yep. Doo-doo.

Its gross, nasty brown candle wax.

Holy crap (lol), I haven't heard the term KYBO used in 30+ years.

Dunno how American chocolate tastes, but at some point there was something in the news saying that products containing zero cocoa can label themselves "chocolate" in the US so I'm not even willing to try. At least not the "popular" brands.

Not sure where you are getting your news, but it is not true. Many products-- like chocolate and ice cream-- have regulated definitions(1). You are allowed to call things "chocolate [noun]" (as in pudding) sometimes despite not being chocolate, but my reading of the rules(2) is that it must contain cocoa.

[1]: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=fe2b45308...

[2]: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan...

Random duckduckgo result:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/cheap-chocolate-candy-m...

I remember seeing stuff like this since years ago.

Mind, it's not actually cocoa less, just not chocolate. At least in this article.

Anybody who says US chocolate is terrible hasn't looked for anything beyond what a 7-11 would carry. Even Hershey's sells some great stuff under different brand names (like Dagoba).

American chocolate is like American beer. On some level everybody kind of knows that there are 100s of great American beers out there, but most people still instinctively think Bud Lite when they hear the phrase "American beer", and judges accordingly.

Most developed countries have great chocolate, the floor of chocolate from America is lower than the floor of European chocolate, even though the ceilings are about the same. So, on average, European chocolate is better.

I think for most its because in America re: chocolate in particular, marketing and cheap filler-based products won out. A european company wouldn't make hershey's milk chocolate and call it chocolate bc its mostly sugar.

A European company is not _allowed_ to call it chocolate (in Europe). You need to have a minimum percentage of cacao and cacao butter. You are allowed to call it something else though.

American chocolate is probably a bad example because what makes it bad is the lack of cocoa.

If we sold "American coffee" that was 99% chicory and 1% coffee, it'd also get a lot of hate.

I’m an American, and never thought we invented any of those. These broad, sweeping American stereotypes are as obnoxious as American tourists in Brussels. (See what I did, there.)

It's a communication problem. If an American sees "paella" on a menu in Spain, they're not going to recognize what's on the plate. It's not that Americans did or didn't invent it, it's just not what they thought they were asking for.

I'm intrigued by this notion of an alternate form of paella; what is it that Americans think they're asking for when they order paella?

"Paella" in the US (and much of non-mediterranean Europe) generally implies shellfish. This is only common in some parts of Spain, and is not considered an 'authentic' Valencian paella.

An American would absolutely recognize it for what it is, it might just be a bit different from what they where assuming.

That being said most Spaniards happily chuck whatever they happen to have laying round into their paella when cooking at home.

Hm. I'm German, and to me, paella means some dish with rice in a pan plus whatever. Usually contains tomato in some way, I guess? It has a similar meaning to pizza (starchy base + usually tomato + [...]) that way.

The notion of paella purity is powerful enough that Valencians successfully protested Apple's rendering of the "shallow pan of food" emoji because it evoked a non-Valencian paella (or, as they would say, not paella at all but just arroz con cosas.)

https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-fixes-paella-emoji/

""Paella" in the US (and much of non-mediterranean Europe) generally implies shellfish."

Interested in how you came to that conclusion. All of the restaurants near me that serve paella offer a wide variety of protein options.

Oh, but "you" did invent them, that's the point!

Original post has been flagged for a swipe at American tourists, but its list of "foreign" foods that are actually American is a good one. That list:

   - pizza pepperoni (Italy)
   - mayonaise (Belgium/France)
   - paella (Spain)

We can add to this Sriracha.

This phenomenon is not unique to America though. Like, try Chindian food some time. Not invented in China.

I died. I love the idea of Chindian being the new word for Indo-Chinese. Am gonna try it out today.

Also, agreed!, the food is definitely very indian and very delicious. Soy sauce might be the most Chinese thing about it.

Sriracha was invented in Thailand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha

The pepperoni pizza is more of a language issue really, in the USA Pepperoni is a salami brand and it sounds a TON like peperoni, the italian word for bell peppers.

can't wait to go to Italy and order deep dish

Next time you're in Torino, go for it. "Pizza al tegamino" is the phrase you're looking for. Also keep an eye out for a "torte salata", some of which are quite similar to what Americans call deep dish pizza.

When I hear the word "pizza", the first thing that comes to mind is a New York slice.

Italy wasn't the first culture to bake cheese and other ingredients on a flatbread, either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar hell.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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