Dear Recruiters: (a canned response to recruiting emails) | Hacker News Reader

Dear Recruiters: (a canned response to recruiting emails)

dearrecruiters.com

57 pointspuls35 comments

Yes yes yes! This is what drives me CRAZY about the job postings from Y Combinator companies here on Hacker News. I would NEVER apply for a job without knowing what the company does and who is behind it. "Stealth mode" is a lame excuse. We've all learned that execution trumps ideas alone, and is a surprise launch really the cornerstone of your execution?

Before applying for a job, I would want to check out the company's home page and see "do they look competent? Do they look like they're building a product that they're proud of? Is it something that I want to be a part of?" I'd also want to check out the company on LinkedIn or other social networks, to see if they're actually thought leaders in their community, and to see if I know anyone who can give some more color on the people involved.

It's a job seeker's market out there. You may be special, but if you don't tell me who you are, I'm unable to determine whether you're really special or not.

You mean like http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2765209, which is on the front page right now?

Absolutely agree, though.

Wow, that post is appalling poor and demonstrates complete lack of understanding of their target audience, namely programmers.

Upfront, it tells you everything you are not getting as an employee... free time, good salary or nutritious food. Then it tells you absolutely nothing about what you are getting... like you know, things an engineer might be interested in... interesting work, spiffy new programming languages etc. Instead they ramble on about how great they are and focus mostly on business figures like revenue. Even with regards to business stuff things sound scary. Revenue slopes you would not ski down on? Makes me think of plummeting revenues.

My thought upon reading that (having recently relocated to SF): They have an office in the most expensive corner of SOMA... and yet they're expecting you to ramen it? That better come with one FAT piece of equity.

When you tell people to take a 6-figure salary cut and starting "$5 subs like it's going out of style" the next line should be about the top-notch equity package they're offering.

Also, expecting people to act like it's a garage-ramen startup when you have an office in the most expensive corner of startup-town is a bit of a non-sequitor.

I am quite surprised that teaching customer/public communication is not something that is part of the YC experience by now. We've seen time and time again the lack of thought in YC companies public communication such as the job postings here and general updates regarding things such as progress, changes or feedback(Dropbox comes to mind). Hipness is one thing, tact is quite different.

Here's my canned response:

I want to work with the cool technologies I love, namely Python, Django, jQuery, Postgresql, MongoDB, and if it has to be Java it better be something cool for Android.

I need at least ${insert a very competitive salary for my region} to make a jump. I also need full time and good benefits, I don't do contract to hire.

I need a flexible work schedule, sometimes I like to come in very early, sometimes not. I also hate commuting so being able to work from home at least once a week is a must.

So far my requirements have been enough to keep most recruiters at bay.

After being burnt by another cold calling recruiter (you'd think i'd learn to simply hang up on them) this week, i feel obliged to pay respect where it's due to my favourite recruiter. If you're in sydney, and you're looking for a job or a recruiter, speak to steve gilles: http://stevegilles.com/

Steve is the only recruiter we let into the Sydney Rails meetups. He used to be one of us and is a genuinely tops bloke.

If you want a Ruby (or other tech) job with the big end of town in Sydney, Hit up @stevelikesyou.

Hey chubs,

I'm thinking about relocating from the States to Australia in the next few years (roughly 2015). I'm starting to feel out the best way to make a move like this happen, and one arena I'm a little curious about is employment. I can't exactly move my family halfway around the world without a job lined up, although I am willing to go to extraordinary lengths to make that job happen.

Do you think Steve would be open to answering some basic ?'s about the immigration process as it pertains to employment? If he's still in the business in 4 years he might snag a commission off me...

Edit: beilabs, same goes to you if you see this first. Any thoughts?

bartonfink,

I would certainly be able to describe the Australian employment market. Happy to fill you in on the basics of immigration too. But just the basics, what I don't know about visas could fill a warehouse :)

I emailed the GMail account listed in your profile and look forward to having a chat.

Steve Gilles @stevelikesyou

Appreciate the kind words chubs.

You've done a good job of hiding your identity on HN. Drop me a note so I know who to thank :)

I have to agree....I've met Steve a number of times at various Ruby events around Sydney....he's pretty damm good at his job!

Brilliant.

Of couse, recruiters withhold company names because they're scared you'll go straight to the company and they won't get paid.

Therefore, you should add something to the letter like "I understand you have to make money. So my pledge to you is this: Unless I have a pre-existing relationship with the company, I promise not to go straight to them without giving you due credit."

That's a fair agreement.

Ok but this isn't my biggest peeve with recruiters.

My biggest peeve is when they ask me to refer them potential candidates - either specifically ("can you intro me to <person x>") or generally ("do you know anyone that would fit <role>?").

Trouble is that if they are successful with the hire that could be worth $25k+ (25% of salary a good annual salary).

Sorry, but to ask me to do that without offering to split the fee with me is to make a chump out of me. No one has ever handed me $25k on a plate.

Plus, I know enough job openings myself to refer people directly. I certainly wouldn't send my friend's name to a recruiter that I don't even know!

The whole process sucks. We are trying to hire for our small startup and we have a few different recruiters. They seem to just send us random bodies off LinkedIn - nobody particularly stellar, much less demanding of the 25% annual salary as commission. It's unreal.

Someone needs to reinvent this market.

That's what these YC-funded guys are trying to do: http://www.hackruiter.com/ They advertise to engineers, have them code FizzBuzz on the signup page, etc. I recently found a job through them, so naturally I recommend them.

Yep. We met with them and gave them a ton of feedback. Looking forward to their next revision.

I'm surprised you have to go via recruiters? I would have thought you have enough of a name that you would get applications (if you made enough noise about hiring). Maybe having a tweet or blog post in the last 6 months saying you're hiring might be cheaper than 25% :)

What really gets me is the fact that nobody (well, almost nobody) will hire remotely, I guess because they feel like they need a collaborative environment. I get that, but for the cost of living difference between SF and KC, you could easily afford to fly me out every other week or so for a couple of days and we could get our collaboration on! I don't mind coming out to beautiful Silicon Valley regularly, but I can't move my family out there (right away, anyway.)

Why did you agree to 25%? Standard contingency fee is 20%. For multiple openings you can negotiate less.

I was approximating. Maybe it is 20%...

I tweet about it all the time. Haven't seen a huge influx of resumes, unfortunately.

Look for local user group(s) on http://meetup.com

Bay Area Android & iOS groups have 50-300 attendees each month.

I totally agree. When recently searching for jobs, I found so much value in being able to investigate the company and the opportunity. However, I can understand the recruiter point of view: Many recruiters who are cold calling from recruiting firms make their money only if they are directly responsible for the placement.

It's an unfortunate side effect that it is risky for the recruiter to drop the name of the company, because the potential candidate could then bypass the recruiter, and consequently, the recruiter loses that placement commission.

Former recruiter here: recruiters get paid based on the fact that they submitted the candidate first. They do not get paid if the candidate came to them previous. I once got someone multiple rounds of interviews at a hedge fund, only to find out that he'd applied and been rejected three months earlier (apparently luck plus a good cover letter radically improves your odds).

The recruiting fee on a software developer is likely to be $20K+. Half or so would be the recruiter's bonus.

How often do you put a stranger in a position where he or she can casually cost you $10,000 with no repercussions?

I can totally understand where the average developer is coming from, here. But most recruiters run the numbers and decide they'd rather work with the folks who don't need to know the company name. There's room for people who do both, but the behavior this letter decries is normal for a reason.

Are developers so dishonest that, when asked if they were contacted by a recruiter, they'll say no?

Developers are people. So yeah, some of them are that dishonest. Especially when desperate and in need of work.

http://www.thanksno.com/, which inspired this service, is intriguing. "I can't bring myself to tell you, so I'll use this webpage to tell you instead"? I'm not saying it does not make sense, just that it's a bit funny when you think of it.

By the way, if anybody has any suggestions for improvements, I'm all ears. I mean, not in a literal sense, but you know.

I just wish they'd stop calling me at work, that's just rude. My email address is on my website, for crying out loud!

You forgot:

"Sure, I'll be happy to recommend friends who know how to write iOS apps to you...if you give me a cut of your take."

i would add a link to this book http://goo.gl/w6BQp by Joel Spolsky. it gives great insight into what makes developers tick. Recruiters would benefit greatly from understanding that good developers are rare, and in high demand, and they are not going to respond to your email just because you've named some technologies that they've worked with.

Most job descriptions make no effort in enticing good talent. it's the here-is-what-you-MUST-know laundry list along with vague generic write up on the company. And most recruiters just forward this garbage to everyone on their list that somewhat matches the skill set.

I always tell them to check the local user group(s). Great range of talent and willing to hear a one min pitch.

Talented people network for themselves. They know the shops, the recruiters, the heavies, and up-and-coming...

Developers need company name and salary range offerred for that position.

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