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Comment by ashtonkem | Hacker News Reader

It’s infuriating that cyclists have to fight over the scraps of pavement not consumed by cars.

Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. Cyclists vs. drivers is some of the most tedious and (relatedly) most vicious flamewar that appears here regularly. Maybe second only to flamewars about pets. We don't want predictable discussion on HN, because it's boring and turns nasty.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Hint: if your comment leads with "It's infuriating", you should probably pause.

I'm somewhat torn here, because this could theoretically reduce cars, and I'm more anti-car than I am pro-bike.

It's infuriating that bicyclists run red lights, illegally ride on sidewalks and hit pedestrians, and generally act like the rules only apply when it suits them. Ask anyone who walks or drives in American cities and cyclists are the absolute worst, most aggressive, most illegal entities on the roads.

Why do you think they're ever illegally on the sidewalks in the first place? Probably because the road is, to them, more dangerous than them being on the sidewalk.

While there are imperfect operators of every mode of transportation, don't forget that also applies to drivers and pedestrians.

Cyclists on sidewalks while pedestrians are present should walk their bikes. A pedestrian is not expecting a piece of metal moving at 20+ MPH to whiz past them as they are walking, and could step right into them. Cyclists who hurt a pedestrian on the sidewalk are culpable for any damage they cause, and I would argue they should be penalized very harshly.

I've seen papers that evaluate the behavior of cyclists and see that when they do break the law (e.g. not stopping at a stop sign) they actually do so to increase their safety. Less time in an intersection means less chance to get hit.

Increase whose safety? Cars get "safer" every year by being more dangerous to everyone else.

Eh. I agree in bicyclists are often obnoxious but as a pedestrian if I do get hit, I’d rather it be by a bicycle than a car or truck.

Also, they take up less room. The density of cars is ridiculous. You have narrow sidewalks with hundreds of people and then 5x the space for 10 people in one car each. Not to mention the cars with no people at all just sitting there taking up space.

Cars do not speed down sidewalks full of people.

I mean we have the stats. Are there any cities in the US where more pedestrians get killed by bikes than cars? It certainly isn’t the case in NYC.

Yes they do, quite often: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/20/florida-pri...

It's infuriating that drivers run red lights, illegally park in bike lanes, text and drive, and hit pedestrians, cyclists and other cars, and generally act like the rules only apply when it suits them. Ask anyone who walks or bikes in American cities and drivers are the absolute worst, most aggressive, most deadly, most polluting and illegal entities on the roads.

Drivers run red light < 1% of what cyclists do. In Boston, cyclists run the red 99.99% of the time. It's criminal.

Exaggerating to this extent really undermines your attempt at making an argument. It's impossible to see your words as anything but a bitter, irrational rant when you do this.

First of all yes any group can contain bad actors. But bad actors in the car category are a magnitude worse than a bad cyclist. A cyclist isn't controlling a 1000kg lump of metal that pollutes (noise and emissions), destroys communities and cities (encouraging car travel has ruined American cities, vast urban expanses given up to cars), and has a greater risk of serious injury when they crash.

Cyclists are majority law breakers. They do not respect sidewalks, red lights, pedestrians, and basically anything that gets in their way. I understand that a cyclist potentially removes a car from the road, but every time cyclist harms an innocent person I pray the judge throws the book at them given how dangerous they act.

Incorrect at least for Denmark and USA [0-1].

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists...

[1] https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-b...

I wonder if The Netherlands over-polices cycling behavior and so inflates their stats with minor nits in order to collect fines. OTOH, there's not many helmets nor stolen bicycles in NL.

In the US, for experienced/aware/agile cyclists who ride often and defensively, it's usually safer for them to not wear a helmet because:

i) Vehicles statistically give helmet-less cyclists more space.

ii) Unconscious personal safety anxiety and risk-aversion that comes along with a rational cyclist not wearing a helmet. Something they must never forget.

Actually, a study conducted in 2017 for the Florida Department of Transportation and conducted by scientists at the University of South Florida’s Center for Urban Transportation Research concluded that cyclists were slightly more compliant with traffic laws than drivers.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180623224226/http://www.fdot.g...

Maybe if you focused on the best and nuanced picture of cyclists because it's not like they're BMW drivers. :)

It's legal to ride bikes on sidewalks here.

Most of this is subjective, unsubstantiated conjecture, or blatantly ignoring the fact that cars cause congestion, injury and death much more than bicycles.

Aside from that, riding on sidewalks is legal in Austin. You clearly aren't familiar with the situation.

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