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Comment by geerlingguy | Hacker News Reader

We used to have meter readers running (literally) from house to house jotting down the numbers.

Yes but that’s one data point at one singular moment in time being collected by one person. Smart meters continually broadcast a constant stream of data to anyone who cares to listen.

If I had to guess, it's likely a response to an [unauthenticated] inquiry. If so it's probably not quite the same but effectively similar.

Depends on the meters. My electric utility just replaced their old (circa 1999) smart meters which were one way broadcast with a new smart meter that's supposed to be two way capable. I didn't notice a lot of change at their data collection base station (which happens to be at the corner of my driveway), so I don't know if they already had a transmitter in addition to a receiver, or if it's small enough to fit in the existing equipment box or if they're using a different station.

The meters used in my area can be wirelessly shut down by any nearby power technician.

They have vans with very visible PVC pipes mounted on the roof to interact with the meters.

> They have vans with very visible PVC pipes mounted on the roof to interact with the meters

That's more likely a fiberglass antenna.

Not all smart meters work the same way.

Ha, interesting, if there really are no security mitigations, I can wardrive 2 days in a row and figure out which houses have very low power consumption, and deduce from that they are empty and I can go rob them. Ha, maybe even figure out if some power consumption means they have security devices, or just a fridge and a cooler.

And to make it worth my while I can just war-drive around the swanky areas of the city.

Or, look for high usage and rob people for their crypto-mining rigs or pot farms! /s

Might need to do some math for the pot farms. LEDs don’t use that much electricity. Can set up a pretty big operation with 1-2kw.

But the draw will be very consistent.

lol - I don't grow (obviously) but I know people who do (legally). They don't use LEDs, but I did use LED lights to grow some indoor veggies. From what I read (again I'm no expert) the low end LED stuff just doesn't cut it. Maybe there's a high-end LED market I'm unware of?

If you could design an algorithm for your wardriver gear, you might be able to detect when growers switch from 18/4 to 12/12 hour light cycles.

From my understanding, commercial grows all use LEDs. You can roll your own and buy 50w+ LED modules, old CPU coolers and constant current inverters to get as high-end as you want.

A lot of the all-in-one “grow lights” aren’t well evaluated, but I’m sure some out there get the job done.

Or you can just war-drive around collecting the high-energy infra-violet emissions that escape through the walls at night, finding out which houses are not occupied! OMG!

Also, please excuse my pedantry, but it is impossible to rob an unoccupied dwelling.

/me just now realizing that everything Bilbo did as a "burglar" was actually robbery.

The range is pretty limited, and there's generally nothing to stop me from either walking up to your house and reading your meter directly or from getting a pair of binoculars and doing so from your property line.

The data was always "out in public" anyways.

How is this? I’ve never seen meters installed in the open with the display readable. Here in the Netherlands they are usually behind two doors. The front door and the door to the cabinet with all the meters and utility connections.

They’re just mounted on the side of the house like this[1] in the US at least. Power and natural gas, at least. Not sure if I’ve seen water.

[1] https://images.app.goo.gl/H4abfrAyw85FSogq6

Frequently attached to the incoming water line, usually under a metal cover between the water main under the street and the house.

Still have these folks here in Palo Alto.

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