'This is a food bank now': Workers seized a McDonald's in France
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
Seeing the golden arches on the roof is some bizarre statement. The volunteer patiently explaining this is after McDonalds??? WTF? This is not how trademarks work.
It was not clear but seems the city is involved in this crap? Does that mean residents can stop paying taxes if they are vegan and the mayor was spotted eating a burger? (replace by some other belief system and repeat)
Again, is this being praised? Am I missing something?
What happens when someone brings the anarchy to you? Remember, anarchy doesn't care who or what you are. You just are, and you are there for the taking.
People dont like anarchy when it's brought onto them. It's all fun and games when you're the anarchist, but it's a two way street.
It works if you're using it as another word for 'chaos', but setting up a food bank is not exactly chaotic behaviour. Seems very sensible, pedestrian sort of stuff to me.
And yes, anarchy is chaos, just intellectualized.
is not how that word works in english.
>And yes, anarchy is chaos, just intellectualized.
is not what that word means in english.
I wouldn’t necessarily mind, anarchism, or libertarian socialism to use a less loaded term, being brought to my neighborhood. My issues are not with the basic ideas but the concrete implementations.
Do not fucking piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining that anarchists want highly organized structures.
You wouldn't mind this you say? Because you imagine you get to do whatever you want. Let's see, in the real world, that applies to everyone. They get to do to you, how they want, without a shred of potential consequence. In a world with various methods of attempting order through consequences enacted by governing bodies, people still do very bad things to other people. No governing body on a wide scale, by your logic, must lead to pure peace and unity. Because it's the fact governments exist that mayhem exists. I already know you have zero time spent in a history book. Any idiot who spends some amount of time reading about any culture, of any time period, notices how it's the implementation of rules and proper consequences is when peace starts to manifest. Along with evenness of implementation. We can obviously argue how severe consequences should be and what rules should exist. That's always a healthy debate to have especially as economies, tech and cultures evolve. For example, certain maritime trading laws need severe, severe, severe updating since the landscape is extremely different these days compared to when they were written literally 150 plus years ago. But to piss and moan that we should just burn it all to the ground because a loser professor tells kids they wont amount to anything because of "the system"... yea, whatever.
That and while I do heavily disagree with lots of libertarians, they're about the most extreme minimal amount of government. They're more in favor of zero economic intervention and policy. Practicing libertarians normally have the go that what I do at home is free reign, but there should be a set of rules when it comes to "public interactions". Again though, they want it super minimal. Not non-existent. Dont mix them in with a bunch of teens with weaponized angst. Anarchy is a collective, "sounds like a whole lot of not my problem".
Also, libertarianism isn't historically connected with anarchism.
> I already know you have zero time spent in a history book.
Indeed.
Spoiler: Profit/pursuit of happiness, Common interest, self-preservation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
Also, since you seem interested in history, here are two books, that portray the communities, without them being overly dogmatic:
- Anarchy’s Brief Summer THE LIFE AND DEATH OF BUENAVENTURA DURRUTI, Hans Magnus Enzensberger
- Beer and Revolution The German Anarchist Movement in New York City, 1880-1914, Tom Goyens
> You wouldn't mind this you say? Because you imagine you get to do whatever you want.
Absolutely not. I imagine the most direct forms of democracy and ditch the representatives if they don't represent. So unlike pretty much all nations, actually taking democracy seriously and seeing it trough to all its consequences. Very different thing.
Humans have dealt with these issues forever.
So that McDonalds would have closed anyway, might as well do something useful with it instead of leaving the property to rot.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7b7zq/mcdonalds-food-bank-m...
The manager doused themselves with petrol and demanded their livelihood and that of 77 other employees be guaranteed. So this is a more complicated situation.
Sounds like a good decision to me, why take shit from a global company thousands of miles away?
But hey, feel free to have a french revolution part deux.
Well from news reports, we can't really tell who made the decision to close down. "McDonald" can be either the franchise owner, McDonalds france - both french locals.
> It was not clear but seems the city is involved in this crap?
Feeding the poor, especially in times of crisis like covid. Don't you see the appeal ? really ?
It's funny to see people feeding the poor, for free, during a crisis, and people like you complaining about things like "this is not how trademarks work", it really gives you a good idea of how some people are viewing the world.
McDonalds isn't a faceless corporation. There is some chance it was owned by a franchisor. These people work really hard to put a downpayment on a restaurant. Would you be okay if this was indeed owned by a franchisor who then lost everything they had? This is equivalent to rioters destroying someone's business?
Lets say this was a corporate store. Does that make it okay to unlawfully acquire/squat on their property? Are you okay with the spate of shoplifting going on at drugstores in SF? Would you be okay if all corporate stores disappeared tomorrow (or charged you an extra X dollars to deal with loss like this happening ubiquitously)?
To your last point, look, I am not some successful business dude. But I benefit from living in a civilized country (my parents took on a lot of hardship to get my to Canada). I also know a story that seems simple is often complex. Are there really no other places in this town where a foodbank could be built? Clearly some powerful people with agendas are making statements.
People on HN react as if these people forcibly entered the place and violently took the control from a successful hard working business owner.
I see two options:
Either people simply don't understand the situation and side with "hard working business owners" because that's who they identify with. Or they are so disgusted by charity and solidarity (oooo socialism bad) that they prefer a place to be abandoned and useless than serving a greater purpose
Also, McDonalds is a largely franchise business so this store getting taken over probably hurt a french business or investor.
I wouldn't mind the end but how they got to the end is not ideal as is being praised by some other comments here.
Also, not sure how the govt. has funds to buy a mcdonalds location but not feed the poor which got them to this state in the first place - and maybe that's something which needs fixing instead of blaming everything on businesses and corporations.
Maybe the Mayor thinks this is effective at that end and by paying to McDonald's they can normalize their situation and help improve access to food to poor people. Seems that so far they didn't do a very good job if they have to rely on a nonprofit.
Parts of the country now appear indistinguishable from North Africa. As the demographics change, the rule of law and culture that made the country successful will also slip away.
The native French people should absolutely be mad about this. These people were brought in to 'solve the aging crisis', but instead are simply contributing to the burden of the welfare state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!
And honestly, they do have a point, to some extent.
It's more complicated than that. You can land in a dystopia by ignoring property rights and you can land in one by respecting them too much.
That's especially true with property rights, because people with a lot of property [1] often selfishly see them as the most scared thing ever.
[1] or who fantasize about someday having a lot
Let's talk about property rights first. Property rights are a joke, and a bad one. When people take a property from a big company, other people start yelling about property rights, but when big companies take a property from someone else, these same people says nothing.
Did you know this happens, companies taking people's properties and it's is all legal? Here where I live, a group of families are suing the city because the city wants to take their homes to sell to a big company. The company wants to build a mall, but the owners refused to sell, so the company "asked" for city's help.
These families are poor and they are expending money they don't have to defend their homes because a company wants to build a mall no matters what. Nobody questions these kind of thing. People will just say this is how things work because companies just want more profit and there is nothing to do about it.
Again, nobody makes any question when companies take something from people, but when people take a company's property to feed starved people we start talking about property rights? Really?
Why not talk about people's right to food, shelter, health care, education? Why not talk about companies taking natural resources to make themselves even more rich at expense of people's lives?
Why are we accepting this bullshit "companies can do everything they want but people can do nothing" norm?
Why do people fighting for a better life is wrong while companies destroying the world for profit is right?
Another interesting thing, most clients of this place are of middle eastern origin. France really need to solve the migrant crisis.
Can't save images can't copy text on many websites.
Mobile Web has learned a few things from Web 2.0, mostly how to have more control over everything.
Here it is on Google Incognito: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/mcdona...
Outline doesn't work because it's an interactive story.
I see no angle where this action could have a moral hazard effect that could prevent future business from investing in that neighborhood
I'm generally pro private property but at least from the perspective of someone living in the US I sometimes question the idea when it comes to real estate in developed areas.
The business people involved had already shut down the McDonald's after the French government stopped subsidizing it. Is the former employees then running a food bank out of the abandoned restaurant an attack on business?
Not sure that is the kind of businesspeople you want attract, to be honest.
It is funny that the parent talks about thugs, because the owner actually paid thugs to physically attack and give death threats to the workers at this restaurant who would not obey him.
There isn't anything thuggish about it btw, the business was closed and the mayor chipped in to help the people running the current food bank.
And personally I prefer to see a bit more human decency and a bit less disgusting American shit food resellers like macdonald's. I know Americans don't know a lot about solidarity and are probably the most individualistic country in the west but come one, "thuggish", lmao
Ah yes, how dare they help starving people voluntarily, right? /s
I have a dead car out back, and a other car I value. They are both my property. If you come and try to take the one I actually value even the slightest bit, I will come out and object. If you come and take away my trash, I will not object.
Where are the cops sent by McDonalds to object to this tresspass and theft of their valued property?
Lastly, private property, especially land, is routinely reclaimed by the public from private owners, any time the goverenment decides it needs to. No one ever really owns land. It is all ultimately owned by the state.
Unless you're from China - The people/govt compensate landowners when the land is needed for a public project.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Restaurants-shou...
In 2009 the government reduced the restaurants VAT from 19.5% to 5.5%. Studies found that 30 months later prices had only dropped by 1.9%.
https://www.ipp.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/n32-notesIPP-m...