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Comment by borski | Hacker News Reader

Read up a bit on ADHD. That 'hyperfocus' that occurs either with deadlines or on a passion project is a symptom, as is the inability to get excited about projects you simply don't want to do - especially given your otherwise positive reviews and your ability to clear your mind and hyperfocus near a deadline, it's something to consider.

I was diagnosed at 33, and it changed my life infinitely for the better. YMMV, and you may not have ADHD, but if you do, it is nothing to feel guilty about - it, in fact, gives you some insanely useful abilities that others simply don't have, as evidenced by the number of comments on this post explaining you have no guilt to feel, and your positive performance reviews.

But being able to understand why we do these things, and being able to understand how to adjust for them (whether through medication or coping mechanisms) is, alone, insanely relieving.

Consider picking up 'Driven to Distraction,' or 'Delivered From Distraction,' or check out these posts by Mark Suster which was what led me to get started on the path:

* https://bothsidesofthetable.com/how-to-know-if-you-have-add-...

* https://bothsidesofthetable.com/why-add-might-actually-benef...

* https://bothsidesofthetable.com/developing-an-action-plan-fo...

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Isn't it just rational not to get excited about boring stuff that is rewarded by a fix monetary ceiling? Economically it completely makes sense: why put more energy into something that yields the same result either way? Or maybe I have ADHD too.

it's not about not getting excited. It's the result of being "not excited". Neurotypicals can work on things that are uninteresting to them. ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start.

this video does a good job of explaining the motivation problem when you have ADHD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM0Xv0eVGtY

> ADHD people can sit there yelling at themselves to "do the thing" that they _know_ they need to do and still be completely incapable of starting regardless of how "easy" it is to actually do it once something forces them to actually start.

I also do this. Even worse: the easier and hence duller the task seems, the more difficult it is to get started on it. Once I do start on it and finish 5 minutes later, I need a 20 minute break (WFH doesn't help).

I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about. But to be honest the information content of most meetings is really low.

That's actually a strategy recommended to ADHD folk: do 20m of engaging "fun" to prepare yourself for 5m of forced boring activity. Think of it as recharging a reservoir of $tolerance before draining it to power some boring activity.

>I also often zone out during meetings to the point I haven't got a clue what people are talking about

I've found that having a pen and some notepaper for doodling and writing whatever a speaker is saying is helpful to stay engaged

I play minesweeper. I even have a reputation for it. Long before I got my ADHD diagnosis. But I’ve done a good job of making people aware that if I’m playing minesweeper I’m as engaged as I’m able to be.

Getting started feels like climbing the steepest mountain, so I’ve learned to just open the damn thing in front of me and tell someone I’ll send it over to force myself to start (forced accountability). It works 99% of the time if I think the person is sitting there waiting for it anxiously. ADHD is living life as a knowledge worker on nightmare mode compared to neurotypicals with functioning executive memory.

You mean people can fill out their tax forms before the due date?

No joke. I pay my CPA extra to nag me.

I do the same thing!

Same. I automate it, though, wherever possible, and still managed to forget to pay my most recent property taxes, heh

I live and die by Reminders.app and yet I still have 20 unaddressed reminders at any given time :(

I set the important reminders for 2pm. Something about 2pm is just right. It doesn't always work, but it works often enough that I "hey Siri, remind me to [x] at 2pm on [day]" when it matters. I usually end up doing it earlier because I know 2pm is coming.

I set my important ones for 1030am or 1pm!

This, exactly. It's not about not wanting to. It's about literally being incapable of changing that, no matter how much you tell yourself and really mean to want to.

One thing I think isn't too clear with the descriptions here - sometimes it is just that hard to start things you want to do with ADHD as well.

I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it. All that time you might research it, but it's a problem of getting started even though it is something you are wildly interested in.

Dozens of really interesting things left undone and probably never will get done.

Most of the people who don't understand ADHD and say it is similar to what they go through should be taught about this aspect of it as well.

> I consider that a hallmark of the syndrome - you are REALLY interested in something, got a project fully prepared around it, and then it sits there waiting for you to do it.

While I don't dispute the seriousness of ADHD, having never read about it, I can't help but think that the thing you described as the hallmark of the syndrome is just a really common thing among any functioning human being.

Pretty much every symptom can be described that way. Your chest feel heavy? It could be cancer. It could also just be a really common thing among any functioning human being.

A hallmark can't just be considered without the existence of other symptoms. It literally means "If you see this symptom, look for these others to see if it's ADHD." An indicator isn't a solitary rule.

People really like to minimize it because online ADHD conversations don't typically describe the entire diagnosis and its variations. To do so would be far too verbose and extensive for regular discussion.

Oof, this video makes me think I may have ADHD. I just cannot get boring things done, and I get more stressed the more I procrastinate, and it just spirals.

What has helped me is something that the video mentions too, and that's working with a coworker. Not so much pairing (as in, looking at each other's screen), but just saying "I'm working on X now" and feeling like someone else is working on their thing alongside you/simultaneously. That has produced great results for me.

Checking in for accountability like this is a really REALLY common ADHD coping skill.

there's a site called focusmate that helps you find accountability buddies (https://focusmate.com). it's really helped me.

Do you use this primarily for professional life, personal tasks, general motivation? (Tried to word this non-exhaustive/non-xor but saying so explicitly in case that didn’t come across.)

Yes I'd be curious to hear more about this too. I've looked at Focusmate but haven't yet got myself over the line to signup.

ADHDer here—I found Focusmate last fall and it flipped my whole world right-side up. (It was so impactful I actually got in touch with the team and, long story short, I now work for them.) Anyway, I’d be happy to do a session with you and show you the ropes.

Interesting to hear what an impact it had for you. I was just looking at the site again yesterday but in typical ADHD fashion didn't follow through with signing up! I'm game to give it a go - my email address is in my profile.

Sweeeeeet, sent you an email :D

You can use Focusmate for anything! I use it for 1) accountability to wake up on time and get myself going, 2) going through my morning routine, 3) working, 4) cleaning/chores. I’ve been on sessions where other people also write, meditate, study, or prep for presentations. Someone even used it to take a nap once when she needed some sleep.

The common term for it I've seen online is Body Doubling, though that might be a more specific variation.

I had never heard this term, now I have more learning to do! Thank you.

Completely off topic (I think?), thanks for posting that video. Her entire channel seems full of things that can be useful to me.

This is why adhd is associated with risky behaviors like drug use, gambling addiction, unprotected sex and std transmission, stealing, etc. the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc.

It’s a vicious cycle leading you on a one way ticket straight to hell and losing everything you care about in life or rotting in prison as an adult that looks invisible to the naked neurotypical eye and dismissed as being lazy when a kid by ignorant parents.

> the dopamine rush lights up your reward system above your baseline levels in these extreme situations just like procrastinating and getting something done down to the minute before it’s due and narrowly missing the severe consequences (getting fired, your spouse leaving you, letting bills go unpaid until you are about to lose your utilities, house, get deeper into credit card debt, etc.

I’ve been this way my entire adult life and I did not realize those were dopamine hits. Wow.

Yeah if the stakes are high you will be forced to take action, possibly activate your fight or flight adrenaline response if it’s immediate but mostly the dire consequences and novelty of situations feel akin to having a gun to your head and needing to take action or risk serious harm. Maybe they are evolved mechanisms, citations needed of course. There is hope if you have severe adhd, highly recommend a medical work up with stimulant meds at therapeutic dosages. Don’t feel ashamed if you need help, no one wants to live their life knowing they are being held back by their broken executive functioning region of their brain and missing the opportunity to realize their full potential.

Where is the line between procrastination and adhd then?

Procrastinators can get things they like to do, done.

ADHD makes even things you love and are wildly interest in, hard to follow through on.

People with ADHD are notorious for starting projects and then leaving them, regardless of how fun or cool said project was.

Procrastinators don't start new projects consecutively. One is a delay tactic. The other is outright avoidance.

Isn't that basically how everyone behaves?

Not to the extreme people with ADHD have.

For example, I know many people who just don't show up for work. They just can't get up and do it and they get fired. That isn't typical for how "everyone behaves."

With ADHD, for many it's nigh on impossible to get focused, no mater how high the stakes are - to the point where it seems extremely irresponsible and downright irrational to normal observers.

Imagine that almost everything in your life, is the equivalent of starting on a test/exam 2 hours before the deadline, even though you've had a week or two to finish it.

The problem with ADHD is that it applies to everything in your life, not just work. You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series. Actually, they're even harder to do than work because there's no pressure on you to keep up with it.

These all seem like normal human activities to me, tbh

It's more of an issue of organizing and properly prioritizing one's thoughts, along with the irl output being misaligned. This usually results in an incredible amount frustration that gets fed back into the thought loop and frequently causes confusion, which that confusion contributes to the above and can lead to depression and/or anxiety (both in my case unfortunately).

The struggle is more than the simplistic description of "this is not interesting. It bores me", it's really "my brain is uncomfortably overwhelmed with coordinating my thoughts with the tasks at hand to the point of feeling angry/anxious/down/<fill in negative emotion>, but oooo I could just cook a familiar recipe which won't require much thinking and can relieve me of, and potentially help with, this mental situation". It's complicated and requires a lot of "tricks" to deal with it. This is the case whether there are tasks to do, if one is just reflecting in thought, thinking up ideas, conversing, reading, etc... even writing this has taken me 10-15 minutes tbh...

Yeah, I 100% relate to this, and I bet a lot of people do. I would wager that ADHD like most things exists along a spectrum, and that its symptoms in mild cases can be coped with. I'm sure there's a point at which they becomes impossible.

Hmm. Could that be why I fail to be a completionist in games? I play computer games, but don't give a rip about achievements or multiple playthroughs... They are fun, but as soon as I beat it, I move on.

You're joking right? You move on from a fun activity when it stops being fun you so think you may have a disorder? I don't want to seem insensitive to genuinely troubled individuals but there seems to be a pattern on HN where every single topic about productivity is now swamped with people claiming that "ADHD" is the cause of not caring about things that aren't worth caring about and not trying hard when you don't need to, etc., all of this being completely rational. It seems like a collective delusion or something akin to a dysmorphia.

I mean, ADHD awareness has gone up a ton in the past year. I definitely agree that "isn't a video game completionist" is hardly a reason, on it's own, to question if one has ADHD, but it could very well be one part of a puzzle if someone has other patterns that line up.

To me that is asking like why don't I go outside and kick a tree. If I don't kick every tree do I have ADHD?

My point being is that there is absolutely no reason to be a video game completionist.

You’re right; this fact alone does not diagnose someone with ADHD. Nobody is disputing that.

But we don’t have the parent’s full context - they may have had a dozen other symptoms that they have finally been made aware of, and in that context this may be a symptom.

I don’t play video games enough for it to be one for me, but if I did, I would almost certainly have trouble being a “completionist.” That doesn’t mean I have ADHD, but coupled with about two dozen other personality traits and symptoms, and tons of self-reflection and medical help, it could be a part of that.

ADHD is the new Aspergers

Seriously though, is there a dx for not having any common sense?

I feel like a lot of us here would be terminal cases

> ADHD is the new Aspergers

WTF does that even mean

In internet culture, self-diagnosing Asperger's syndrome was a huge trend in the mid to late 2000's. Skeptics often claimed it was an excuse to cover up for social deficiencies and awkwardness.

There are similar phenomena of people doing that with all sorts of maladies or abstract identities, from chronic fatigue syndrome to being an introvert. I find ADHD to be an odd choice though, relatively. It seems like it's been at least a decade or two where over-diagnosis of ADD/ADHD was highly criticized, albeit when it comes to diagnosing children (mostly boys) and giving them Ritalin and not adults.

Maybe they actually were ADHD due to childhood lead exposure. ADHD treatments don't have many downsides (although I'm sure people thought they did at the time) except for reducing your appetite and doctor's bills, so it's not like it caused long term harm.

Aren't the medications amphetamines though? Certainly the backlash against over-diagnosis of ADHD in the '00s was fear of kids given drugs during their formative years for "being rambunctious." Very adults it's likely different though.

> Aren't the medications amphetamines though?

Yeah, and? There are literally no long term side effects of taking them (except for maybe some positive ones.)

> There are literally no long term side effects of them

I’m not sure this is true

Not all the medications are amphetamines. The most popular medication, Ritalin, is not an amphetamine.

Even the ADHD prescribed amphetamine medication is dextroamphetamine, not the scary methamphetamine.

There are also several medications that are not stimulants. While I do believe that children should be prescribed the minimum medications during their formative years, I've talked to several teachers whose students now have a prescription because the children were doing school at home and finally followed the teacher's recommendation.

> There are similar phenomena of people doing that with all sorts of maladies or abstract identities, from chronic fatigue syndrome to being an introvert

I don't discount this completely, but I think the argument could be equally strong that we have gained a lot of additional understanding over the last 20 years. There are plenty of conditions that used to be rarely diagnosed (or didn't even exist in medical science) but now are. Just because something didn't used to have a label or definition, but now does, doesn't make it any less valid.

For example we can see differences in ADHD brains with fMRI - something only _relatively_ recently possible. And as medical science gets better at defining and describing these things, more information gets shared, more people talk about their experiences, and the net effect is that unsurprisingly more people identify with that new information. Some self-diagnose rightly or wrongly and leave it at that, others (plenty others I think) use this recognition as a cue to go and speak to a medical expert, which often precedes a formal, valid diagnosis.

I self-diagnosed Aspergers in the mid 2000s. The primarily inattentive subtype of ADHD is a better match for my symptoms, particularly the social ones, but both my psychiatrist and neuropsychologist agreed that my self-diagnosis made sense and I have traits of both disorders. They are very often comorbid. I just wasn't familiar enough with the diagnostic criteria of ADHD to realize I had it. (A roommate with ADHD that I had at the time suggested it, though.)

Also, ADHD is in fact under-diagnosed, particularly in adults and especially in women.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4195639/

Some children are overmedicated, but there's evidence it's also underdiagnosed in children.

I don't mean to dismiss everyone who self-diagnoses. I was pointing out a known social phenomenon or trend of people doing so, possibly because of greater public awareness of the condition. Also see gluten intolerance for a non-psychological example.

Funnily enough, I chanced upon a random YouTube video yesterday and the very top comment was someone mentioning ADHD and others chiming in, while skeptics criticizing the self-diagnosing and likening it to those who self-diagnose other conditions such as depression:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ph3ZCriWAw&lc=Ugw0IXd-rBjzj...

Whether right or wrong, it definitely is a known internet social phenomenon. That's what the ancestral post in this current subthread was referring to by referring to ADHD as the new Asperger's.

Asking if a commenter is joking goes kind of goes against the HN Guidelines regardless if you wanted to come off as insensitive or not: "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community."

I hate to be this condescending but why is this not just ordinary laziness? Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus?

Isn't it more likely that a constant stream of never ending notifications and interruptions decrease our attention span to seconds? You can't read a book because you can't read an article, and you can't read and article because you read 6 line long hackernews or reddit comment that "might" contain some knowledge. Your brain evolved to adapt and it adapted to a world where everything might take your attention elsewhere. You can work to fix this.

> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus?

> You can work to fix this.

Going to a doctor is "working to fix it", and it's a lot of work to keep the prescriptions filled since nobody will give you more than 30 days supply of the useful medicines. There is plenty of other stuff you can do. It's just none of it works unless you do the medication first.

If you don't have the physical causes of ADHD, the medication won't help much, but other things like therapy or going on vacation will. With ADHD it's the opposite.

ADHD is a very well studied medical phenomenon, which results from physical differences from the brain. When it does apply, getting the right kind of help can be life changing.

And even if it is "ordinary laziness", that doesn't mean that seeking confirmation of it something is ADHD or not is a bad exercise, if you can afford it. The lack of motivation also is a very good sign that the OP is heavily disconnected from their work, and needs to find another job or lifestyle, especially if it's this bad and they don't have ADHD.

If it is ADHD, then you have confirmation of a very helpful community and set of medical and psychological tools that you can apply, and you can ignore vast amounts of advice that just doesn't work for people with ADHD.

> Do we really need to go to a doctor so that we hear that we have a problem, and we might need medicine, to focus?

Modern society can be very inflexible if you're in the wrong spot, and don't have the ability to explain why the fit is so bad.

Lastly, many people who do have ADHD have been told that they are lazy or haven't lived to their potential their entire lives. They know they don't fit in. They pick over their brains, looking for ways to do better, trying ways to do better. They are, as a population, far more self-examined than the norm. They don't need your doubt, they have plenty of their own.

Very well said.

Consider how people like to say they have OCD because they think it’s just “liking to be clean”. Most people like things to be clean, right? So anyone could be diagnosed with OCD on a bad day, couldn’t they? No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life. When you see a person who is actually diagnosed with OCD, it becomes really clear that none of these other jokers have it.

The problem with ADHD is that instead of hand washing or checking doors or other very unusual rituals, it mostly just looks like laziness to a casual observer.

> No, because OCD is caused by underlying physical problems with the brain that cause very specific symptoms that interfere greatly with your life.

OCD is merely a label for a cluster of symptoms. It says nothing about the cause. The same can be said for the majority of psychiatric diagnoses afaik.

E.g. “Doctors aren’t sure why some people have OCD.” - https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/obsessive-compulsive-dis...

E.g. 2: OCD can be a symptom of a strep infection and nothing to do with brain chemistry. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/pandas/

While we don’t know the exact cause of OCD or ADHD, physically, we do have research that describes correlations. Particularly for ADHD, we know certain areas of the brain that control executive function are generally smaller in people with ADHD. We also know that they generally have lower levels of certain brain chemicals, and we have learned far more about it through radioactive isotope examination of the brain as well.

For OCD: Research suggests that OCD involves problems in communication between the front part of the brain and deeper structures of the brain. These brain structures use a neurotransmitter (basically, a chemical messenger) called serotonin. Pictures of the brain at work also show that, in some people, the brain circuits involved in OCD become more normal with either medications that affect serotonin levels (serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SRIs) or cognitive behavior therapy (CBT).

Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause).

Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.

> Just because we don’t know the precise cause doesn’t mean we cannot, in the meantime, help alleviate the symptoms for someone suffering from the syndrome (since we don’t know the precise cause).

I didn’t imply anything contrary to that.

> Please don’t get in the way of this by implying people are “making it up,” because, simply, they are not. Both of these are extremely well studied syndromes, but really only in the last few decades.

I didn’t imply people are making it up.

HN guidelines are “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.”.

I understand that you find it natural to jump to conclusions about what others think, but it really damages good discussion.

> correlations

Exactly - for many psychiatric symptoms the causes are not actually known -instead we just measure a bunch of complicated things and try to read the tea leaves.

You didn’t respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of the point I was making when you said strep can sometimes cause OCD symptoms.

The presumption here seems to be that just because we don't know the cause of a condition, the condition is less "valid"?

Only if your only criteria for validity for a psychiatric evaluation is having a clear correlation between brain chemistry and the diagnosis. I think the parent comment is just trying to explore where the boundary lies between mental disorder and personality trait. Maybe some psychiatrists here on HN could help add to the discussion and we could all learn more from it.

Sorry, I really did not mean to give that impression, and I do not trivialise mental health issues.

There is a hell of a lot of bullshit in psychology and psychiatry, sometimes to the point of abusing those they are supposed to help.

I do think that the beliefs like "my brain is wired wrong" or "it's a brain chemistry problem" are usually wrong for some conditions, and that those beliefs can be harmful because they discourage seeking less obvious solutions or solutions particular to the person.

Also you do not want unrealistic expectations of a "cure", or to encourage seeking of dangerous interventions.

The friends I have with mental health issues usually have another layer of strange personal beliefs, which doesn't help either!

It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with everything you've said and I realise that I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say in your previous comment.

> It is a difficult topic to comment on, because people tend to be sensitive about it, for valid reasons.

It definitely is.

Having been recently diagnosed (via medical professionals) with ADHD, I've suddenly encountered for the first time what it's like to be on the other side of this.

I previously had a very misinformed idea of what ADHD (and related things like OCD) actually were. I wouldn't have trivialised them necessarily in words or conversation, but I definitely had a completely wrong understanding of the seriousness of these conditions. I didn't know what I didn't know.

The misconceptions about some of these conditions are so widespread that in my case, I've found it actively unhelpful in some cases to talk to many people in my life about it. Having done the research, I now understand much more about how my brain works and why some things are much harder for me than others, but trying to bridge the gap in this knowledge with others is really hard. Even those closest to me either view the diagnosis with suspicion (and I don't blame them for that if they have the same misconcieved idea about the condition that I did). Others just listen to me describing the problems I have and dismiss them (not intentionally) by saying things like "everyone has those problems"!

I've heard (perhaps even read on HN) that after being diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood you go through a bit of a grieving phase, in denial, then angry at medical professionals who didn't it spot it before, and then sadness at how your life might have been had you realised you had this condition much earlier. I'm in that phase now, and so the lack of understanding from others (which again, I don't blame them for) makes this all the more harder. I'm trying to reincorporate this new understanding into the "model" of myself that I've constructed over many years (without this important information) - it's tough and rather isolating.

So all of that said. I guess I'm likely to view a lot of discussion on this topic through my own specific lens, which is likely to make me overly sensitive to perceived "trivialisation".

It's interesting to recognise that I wouldn't have had this sensitivity at all only just a matter of weeks ago. It's funny how your outlook on things can change so significantly in a short space of time.

I don't mind this take. I'm lazy as hell. I can't make myself care about doing things enough to do them. I would love to magically change that, but no luck so far. Meds help but they don't help enough that I remember to take them or get them refilled. Behavioral interventions have been shown to help, i.e. get off the damn screen and meditate, get outside.

It's not that I can't read a book, I just forget that I wanted to read it. Then by the time I remember I already have my phone out and hn pulled up. Call it laziness, call it ADHD. I don't care, and I don't expect sympathy just like someone who can't do calculus doesn't need sympathy. Some things just seem harder for me than they are for some people.

And what exactly is "ordinary laziness"?

There's a growing group of psychologists who say laziness is a myth. It doesn't exist. When someone is being what we would call lazy, there is almost always something else going on.

https://humanparts.medium.com/laziness-does-not-exist-3af27e...

>You're equally unable to do chores, hobbies, have fun, or even finish watching a TV series.

ADHD does affect everything in my life, but I don't relate to this part. For me, it primarily manifests as there being an immense amount of inertia required to do things I don't want to do. I have no issue doing things I intrinsically want to do.

If it's a TV show, hobby, or fun-having activity that I really like, then I'm perfectly able to do them. If I don't like them, then, yeah, they're probably never getting done, or only getting done in a very pathological way. Procrastinating 3 months of work until the day before the deadline, procrastinating cleaning something for a year until someone has to come over to visit, procrastinating taxes until an hour before midnight on tax day. It's the same story every time.

If it's a hobby or TV show I don't like, then I have no reason to continue it. My ADHD and motivation signal to me what what I actually do and don't want to do during my fleeting period of existence. I feel no guilt about dropping something like that if it can't hold my attention. I only feel guilt when it's something I really should be doing, like work, paperwork, etc., and especially things where I know I'm losing lots of money by not doing it.

There are plenty of things I want to want to do, and those things will never get done. But if I actually want to do something, with no meta-layers, then there's no issue for me.

Your experience matches mine, apart from that I find that if I'm procrastinating on important/severe enough things, then my ability to do even things I enjoy diminishes too.

Personally I think the reason is that the cognitive dissonance gets in the way... I know that I absolutely should urgently do X (important thing I'm putting off) and all the time I don't, I cannot reconcile a deliberate decision to do Y (trivial thing I'd really enjoy). So with the inability to do either X or Y, I just end up being fully stuck and in total deadlock.

Most of the time this situation is preceded by many days, weeks or months of me DOING all those things I enjoy while blissfully neglecting the things I should be doing. It's the end result of this behaviour that eventually leads to the deadlock.

Actually, yeah, I relate to that 100%, too. (Even doing it right this second.) I just spend a lot more of my time in the neglect phase than the "caught up to me" phase.

Yes the deadlock phase is front of mind for me right now because I’ve been in it for a couple of weeks.

But you’re right that the “neglect phase” accounts for the vast majority of time. And when I’m in that, I forget all about the existence of the “deadlock phase” even though I’ll be hurtling towards another one.

Good to know that this self-destructive behaviour is common at least :)

Both of your accounts match my experience, even down to the forgetting. ADHD people are generally bad at self-reflection, and I know I definitely am, despite having gotten better at it over the years.

I’m so happy to see this discussion happening on HN

It's actually seeing such discussions about ADHD over the years on HN that led me to seek an assessment and to ultimately be diagnosed myself only a few weeks ago.

It was a massive paradigm shift for me which I'm only still coming to terms with. The various discussions that pop up on HN about this topic have been hugely helpful. More so than many other places on the internet.

That actually sounds more like depression than ADHD, although ADHD folks very often also have depression so they can be hard to suss out.

Since ADHD is a neurobiological disorder that people are born with, and because undiagnosed ADHD can cause depression, it should be ruled out before diagnosing depression. Same with anxiety.

There's a big gap between finding the work you're actually doing kinda boring, and the massive effort required for me (the narration which believes itself to be the executive) to make progress of any kind at all when the rest of my internal processes don't feel like playing ball. Even with meds.

Indolence when you get don't get more out of extra work is a logical response.

Yes, it's becoming common misconception online that hyperfocus is indicative of ADHD. That's a misunderstanding of the symptom.

The concept of hyperfocus in ADHD was introduced in certain literature to explain a reduced ability of certain ADHD patients to control their attention, such as having difficulty stopping playing a video game to do the dishes. However, that's ambiguously close to normal human behavior of preferring to do fun tasks more than un-fun tasks, so the distinction is best left to professionals.

Regardless, it wouldn't really apply to the OP's description anyway, as accomplishing necessary work tasks before deadlines when necessary isn't the same as someone drawn to fun activities like video games or TV.

As always, it's best to consult professionals. Internet medical advice, especially about ADHD, is increasingly wrong online. It's also worth noting that the concept of "hyperfocus" doesn't even appear in most accepted definitions of ADHD, and isn't considered in diagnostic tests. The idea of "hyperfocus" in ADHD is relatively limited to a few authors and one recent blurb in some European clinical definitions from 2019.

That is not true, and it is referenced as a symptom as early as 1993 in Driven to Distraction, the book I brought up earlier.

Driven to Distraction is a self-help book, not medical literature.

I was referring to official, medical definitions of ADHD and official diagnostic criteria.

It isn’t medical literature, but it references medical literature and is written by medical professionals. Also, whether it was mentioned in medical literature or not, the point is that the symptom was being talked about as early as 1993.

What did you do to solve it? I recently saw this Reddit post [1] and immediately booked an appointment with my doctor. He gave me the run around and asked me to book a 15 min call with another doctor to get an anxiety assessment. As soon as the call began they asked if I felt like I had ADHD. I said maybe and they stopped and said that they only diagnose anxiety. Now I am 200$ poorer(thanks American healthcare) and am nowhere closer. I am going back to my doctor and demand he take it seriously and prescribe something for me to at least try(something like an extremly low dosage of Adderal or something else).

Years ago I had a different doctor and she gave me a prescription for Lexapro. My god what an experience that was. I suddenly lost all random thoughts and boredom. Its like I became a robot, got my work done on time, without any distraction and a kind of concentration I had never had before. I wasn't sad or happy for that matter, I just felt neutral all the time. It was such an interesting feeling.

However Lexapro had severe side effects. Outside of a few hours of relative alertness, I was extremely exhausted and sleepy. I tried sleeping for 24 hours and was still extremely exhausted. It also made me feel extremely nauseous, like I felt like I was being poisoned. Finally there were other side effects of an ahem...sexual nature.

All in all I threw the pills away after a week and never perused the issue again until I saw the video above. Man I'll never forget that week though. The productivity was life changing.

[1]:https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/newcvd/what_adhd_fe...

You'll never "solve" it; you learn to manage it.

I've had fantastic experiences with donefirst.com, but also chadd.org is a great website with tons of resources.

Don't give up on the medication; finding the right one and right dosage is extremely helpful for many people with ADHD, myself included.

The most important part is: find an expert. Child psychologists/psychiatrists often have a ton of experience with ADHD, and also often treat adults. Someone without experience treating ADHD is almost worse than leaving it untreated, because some of the 'solutions' proposed by folks who don't understand the syndrome serve to only make life worse for ADHD people (negative reinforcement, talk therapy, etc.). Talk therapy, or CBT, for example, can be helpful, but coaching is much more useful.

Yes yes yes to all of this!

I was fortunate to have a local medical school with a psychiatry department that has an Adult ADHD clinic where I could seek a diagnosis at the age of 42. Unlike many adults who suspect they have ADHD, I was taken seriously and did not encounter any skepticism on the part of my healthcare providers. I even expressed concern that my problem could be anxiety or depression instead, and my psychiatrist said "If you have undiagnosed ADHD, of course you're going to be anxious and depressed." Find the most expert ADHD person you can for diagnosis and prescribing medication, I really think this is key.

I also agree on not giving up on medication, I had to try three before I found one that worked without also having negative side effects. There's at least one other one I'd like to try, mostly out of curiosity.

I've worked with both a therapist with ADHD expertise and an ADHD coach. My therapist helps me accept my ADHD brain, my coach helps me figure out how to work with it instead of against it. I agree coaching is more helpful but it works best if you can accept the way your brain works instead of trying to fight or change it, so seeing a therapist first to work through that might be a good idea.

I've been listening to a lot of ADHD audiobooks lately. The one I've liked best so far is Nancy Ratey's _The Disorganized Mind_ -- she has ADHD herself and she's the wife of John Ratey, co-author of Driven to Distraction. She kind of invented ADHD coaching and the book is about how to coach yourself.

I’ve been meaning to read that!

Also, this post is spot-on. 100.

Re-reading this thread, and "I’ve been meaning to read that!" is adorable given the context, in retrospect hahaha

Lexapro made me feel like I was on the come up for LSD or MDMA for the first two weeks I took it. It was, for lack of better explanation, as if I were plugged into an electric socket.

After the first two weeks or so, things evened out and I felt much more normal but all of the good things Lexapro brought to me remained. This, from my understanding, is normal and you simply did not give your body/mind enough time to adjust to the dosage.

I don’t think Lexapro did anything to me other than reduce my anxiety. Certainly no side effects in the first few weeks. I started at the lowest possible dose though.

I was also told that the effects only trigger after 2-3 weeks, so to not stop during the first.

Same here. I was on Lexapro for quite some time, and Prozac a few years later. Both (alongside therapy) reduced my anxiety, and helped greatly with my depression. I've since moved off both, and I've been in a quite good place mentally for over a year now.

Neither helped with attention and focus though. I still get distracted by the next thing easily. Although I've never had a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD, I've suspected it for a while now, as it had been suggested off-handedly by a former therapist back in college. This article might be the push I need to get some confirmation.

It hasn't impacted my professional life, but my hobbies have certainly fallen by the wayside because of my difficulties with attention.

> As soon as the call began they asked if I felt like I had ADHD. I said maybe and they stopped and said that they only diagnose anxiety.

What they really meant is that their business is optimized for prescribing certain medications with the same diagnosis and same spiel given to every patent conversation.

An ADHD diagnosis needs to be done by a neuropsychologist, who usually has a Ph.D. and specific board certifications. An anxiety disorder diagnosis is usually done by a psychiatrist, who is a doctor with an M.D. and specific psychiatry certifications.

Thank you. However, I'm not sure that is correct.

  There are several types of professionals who typically diagnose ADHD. These include: physicians (especially psychiatrists, pediatricians, neurologists), psychologists, social workers, nurse practitioners, and other licensed counselors or therapists (e.g. professional counselors, marriage and family therapists, etc.). [1]

  Some examples of professionals who are capable of diagnosing ADHD include: pediatricians, psychiatrists, family physicians, nurse practitioners, psychologists, psychotherapists. [2]

[1] https://chadd.org/about-adhd/professionals-who-diagnose-and-...

[2] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/adhd-doctor

That is interesting that some of them are authorized to diagnose, but can't write a prescription to control it.

I guess that's why they'll all eventually send you to a "specialist," which is another way of saying "someone authorized to medicate you for this."

I'm not sure though - physicians can prescribe Ritalin, but at least here, they always send you off to be checked out by a psychiatrist first.

That makes sense to me. Of course, I'm not disputing the existence of specialists. A nurse practitioner or pediatrician may not have the most familiarity or want to deal with the issue.

I agree that it's both broader and more complicated than what I wrote. At least in some states in the U.S., a neuropsychologist can diagnose ADHD, but can't write prescriptions for medications to treat it. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist can write prescriptions for a patient with ADHD, but might only do so after he reads a diagnosis from a neuropsychologist. Your experience may vary.

Also, diagnoses for disability accommodations (e.g., in education) are a whole different and complicated thing.

Wow thank you for that video. It pretty clearly demonstrated to me that I di not have ADHD. I’ve seen threads like thus, recognized a few symptoms, and wondered. But my inner state is not even remotely close to that.

ADHD is interesting, but it's not really a superpower. It's a superpower in retrospect if you've already found a way to be successful with it, but it's not really something I've found that can be deliberately applied to succeed at things that other people have an easier time with. For me it also helps in areas that I've seen other people struggle in, but I think the key is in how intentionally you can apply yourself. So if you're already a Nat Geo Photographer or professional basejumper, you might look back after a diagnosis and think "that makes sense", but I don't think it would help me get there.

What seems at least somewhat true, is that if you're a person who can be employed arbitrarily and can connect your income directly to things that bring you value, you'll have an easier time in a capitalistic society than someone who needs to derive their motivation from the things they do all the time; with the exception of someone who is exceptionally talented and just falls into success as a consequence of the output of what they've been fixating on.

I'm a software developer I guess, which gives me a hypothetically high earning potential. But over the last 10 years, someone working a menial job for 30-40k would come out on top financially. I've had a hell of a lot more free-time than that person, which is very personally valuable, but it doesn't scale maybe even over more than one decade with such a tattered work history.

After reading one of the parents' links, I wouldn't revise anything I said. Advice that amounts to "delegate the task to someone you hired at your startup" is pretty much only useful for exactly ppl who can do that. I'd rather hear about devastating and comical failures that a person realistically worked their way out of. As in someone losing their job that they needed to pay for their house because they lost interest in the subject matter, then couldn't get another job that paid the same because their burnout broke their ability to grind algorithms problems and it blew up their family and sent them into a depression spiral, and they couldn't pay for therapy obviously so they ended up on the street with less than zero to their name. After that, if they still have a successful startup, then great, maybe there's something constructive to work with. It ain't a fucking super power unless you're pretty lucky imo.

I don't mean to dismiss the GPs comment about their own ADD. No doubt, it's going to be life changing, hopefully for the better. I'm just sick of startup founders saying that actually all I need is to cut carbs and be a CEO.

Reading the OP's account on it's own, I figured it may have been due to burnout or similar. Reading this (excellent) comment, I'm reconsidering my own experiences. I suspect this may be the WebMD effect in action (I clearly have cancer!), but it's definitely making me reconsider a lot of my own personal experiences.

Same story. Founder, early 30s, a couple kids, just got diagnosed last year. Life-changing. Loved the Suster blog posts you linked. The book I liked was "A New Understanding of ADHD in Children and Adults".

As someone who highly suspects they may have ADHD, how was the diagnosis life changing? Was it through medication, or simply through understanding yourself better?

Yeah seriously, what's the secret? I'm 32 and I was diagnosed when I was 20 but the drugs make me anorexic and mute my personality and knowing I have ADHD has not proven particularly useful, especially given that I already knew my tendencies and behaviors and had long since developing coping strategies

The only way my life changed when I was diagnosed was that I got paid for the study I had signed up for, which required I have a diagnosis

Therapy/coaching, and don't give up on trying to adjust the medication. Finding the right dosage, and specific med that works for you, is tricky (I haven't found it yet, but am closer), but can be life-changing. There are a ton of new types of medications for ADHD now; far more than there used to be, when we basically knew stimulants helped but didn't know why.

Still, for about 20% of people, medication simply doesn't help. For them, coaching and therapy (and education about ADHD) is far more useful.

Check out https://chadd.org/ for lots of fantastic resources

I also recommend Scott Alexander's blog post on ADHD medication:

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines

If you're not familiar with the author, he's an incredibly talented blogger whose day job is as a psychiatrist.

Try changing medication, although they're nearly all slightly different forms of amph, the differences are significant. For me, ritalin is just headaches, modafinil is less effective but wonderfully free of most side-effects, and dex is the most useful thing I can legally get.

Unfortunately modafinil is almost 10x the price of dex in Australia if you don't have narcolepsy, and the drug that I suspect would benefit me the most (adderall, a mix of dex and meth) is simply illegal.

There isn't any methamphetamine in Adderall! As far as I know the IR version isn't much more effective than dexedrine.

Vyvanse is the form that works best for me, but the crash can ruin any of my evening plans since I lose all motivation or sometimes just need a nap.

Strattera also works very well for some people and is easy to get.

How often do you discuss how meds are working for you? If you feel muted you might be undermedicated. Your doctor should know that you’re reacting this way and if they don’t take it seriously they’re probably not a good fit.

When I was undermedicated I was literally falling asleep at random, and had basically no emotional response to almost anything. Getting closer to where I should be over the last few months has made a world of difference.

Both; but honestly, the latter was more important. Simply having a name for the reasons why, no matter how hard I tried and no matter how much I really, genuinely, truly wanted to, there were certain things I just couldn't do... that alone was extremely relieving. And infuriating. And vindicating. But mostly, genuinely relieving.

I was able to accept that I wasn't an incompetent fool, incapable of being useful - I had ADHD.[1] That was OK. That meant I could accept what I was bad at, focus on the things I was good at, and use techniques to adjust for the things I've now accepted I'm bad at, instead of incessantly trying to do the same thing over and over that works for other people but ... just doesn't work for me.

Medication has also helped, and I use it on an as-needed basis, but it is not, alone, a cure for anything - it is a tool, often an incredibly helpful one, but still just that. The education and understanding about what ADHD is has been far more helpful, though I'm glad I have the medication as a tool, too.

[1] Incidentally, not understanding your own effect on other people, and devaluing your own contributions and successes? Also a symptom of ADHD. Think about it: most people choose, simply, to try to do the things they are likely to be successful at; they choose carefully. ADHD people do not choose; they can't. They do all of the things they might be excited about, meaning they fail, frankly, at most of them. But in those that they succeed, they are often wildly successful; to everyone else, this is objectively obvious. To the ADHD person, they know they've failed 98 times for every 2 successes, and often fall into a depression (though not as deep as someone who has clinical depression or BPD, unless that's a separate symptom) after nearly every success.

> often fall into a depression (though not as deep as someone who has clinical depression or BPD, unless that's a separate symptom) after nearly every success.

Echoing this point. I struggled with depression for much of my life. Being diagnosed with ADHD at 25 and taking medication for it on a regular basis (5-6d/week) has done more for my depression than any depression medication I've tried.

This also goes to rejection sensitivity which is also common in ADHD. Because we’re overly aware of our failures, we’re also likely to have outsized reactions to reasonable criticism… restarting the same vicious cycle.

Very well put. I was diagnosed as an adult. While I was waiting for my results, at one point my wife said, "wait, do you want to have ADHD?". And yes, I wasn't really able to articulate why I was hoping for a positive result, but that's just it: putting a name to it as a way of forgiving myself for not "living up to my potential".

Wow. I've been reading this whole thread, thinking if I might or might not have ADHD, but your point about perception of success and failure hit it right home. Never seen it described exactly like this, thanks a lot!

There's a bunch of reasons. None by itself is life-changing, but together they make a big difference.

- Awareness. Sometimes, I notice, "oh, I'm feeling distracted right now." Or, "I'm feeling bored right now." Once I notice, I can avoid doing the unhelpful next thing I was going to do.

- Medication. It does help with focus and context-switching, especially on days I have to do a number of medium-size boring tasks. I probably take it every other day.

- Being present. More present with kids when I'm on medication. My wife says I'm less impatient.

- Self-acceptance. That's why I love Mark Suster's posts. He's open that his ADHD makes him a talented entrepreneur and a terrible employee. I have a different temperament than Mark but feel similarly. I used to feel ashamed of a couple of character traits. I don't anymore. This is who I am.

- My tribe. When I look around at close friends and acquaintances, other founders I know including some you've probably heard of -- a ton of them have ADHD too. An employee at our startup has expressed that he's going to start his own startup fairly soon. I was talking to his manager about it and said, effectively: "of course he is. He's brilliant and a bit ADHD. He's got founder genes."

Just asked last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514005

For me it’s been both.

Not to put aside the medication… it’s made me feel more like a normal functioning human capable of existing in a world. I don’t want to overemphasize this though because, while it saved my life, the other part made my life feel worth saving.

I’ve learned in the last couple years that almost all of the things I struggle with trace back to ADHD. My inability to take care of myself and my surroundings without fooling myself with rewards; my cognitive impairments around sensory issues; my endless stream of damaged friendships because I can’t respond to texts or emails or whatever; my whole upbringing of incompatible disappointments because my whole family probably has the same brain. So many things have an explanation even if it’s too late to correct a lot of it. And having an explanation has been immeasurably valuable.

"as is the inability to get excited about projects you simply don't want to do - "

Why is this ADHD and not just being human? This sounds so basic I have a hard time believing this is because of a condition.

I have an ADHD diagnosis (honestly I think my case is rather severe, even) and I agree.

Procrastinating is something everyone does.

Being completely unable to sit still for more than a few minutes is an experience neurotypicals don't share.

ADHD is really one of those disorders that's both under and over diagnosed

To someone without ADHD it doesn't make sense at times.

If you have certain types of ADHD and you aren't excited about something, you just have a huge resistance to doing it and you likely won't do it. Many don't even do the work with a deadline.

On the flip side, when you're intensely interested, you often times are completely absorbed into it, at the expense of other human needs.

> On the flip side...

Also, when that hyperfocus runs out, that absorption is lost, possibly forever. Onto the next fleeting thing.

It's not about not getting excited; it's about literally being unable to. Someone with ADHD can sit there and really mean to get excited, and yell at themselves to, and they simply can't do it; their brain won't let them.

Someone neurotypical can usually convince themselves to at least do it, and "will" themselves into it.

But you're somewhat right, and this is why getting a real diagnosis from a professional is so important: lots of people have some of these symptoms. What distinguishes the ADHD brain from the neurotypical brain is the duration and frequency of these symptoms, and an inability to adjust for them even with disciplined effort.

And it's not about medication, necessarily, though for 80% of people with ADHD, medication is extremely helpful; often, just learning about the syndrome and finding a therapist/coach to help build tools and stop blaming yourself for the things you cannot change is extremely helpful on its own too.

That helps a lot. I know I'm 100% able to do the thing, I'm just a lazy bastard some days

People with ADHD have a hard time starting and then completing even things they do want to do. Everyone with ADHD has a dozen unfinished recent projects they adore, but will probably never finish.

Hyperfocus gets them started, and they go REALLY far with the project, and then it wears out, and the project is neglected thereafter. Even if the person still adores the project and hopes to finish it. Without the hyperfocus, nothing gets done.

This also sounds like the 80/20 rule and/or procrastination. 80% of the thing takes 20 % of the time, and then a feeling of diminishing returns blocks us from doing the other 80% of the effort.

> the project is neglected thereafter. Even if the person still adores the project and hopes to finish it.

I am also curious why this is labeled ADHD. To me this seems to just be “the human condition”.

I guess from what I’ve read in this thread, using the term “ADHD” seems to allow people the ability to forgive themselves for the very human condition of procrastination and/or “not achieving perfect completion”.

For anyone reading this, you can also choose to forgive yourself for not being perfect without the professional diagnosis. At least I definitely do.

It really is hard to describe and, to be fair, is certainly only one symptom of ADHD and a dozen other things. This is why a diagnosis needs to come from a professional, but if someone has been struggling to put together the pieces of their own puzzle, there are likely far more behaviors that have driven them to consider this.

You may be right and indeed there's many psychiatrist who openly say that the definition of ADHD and where you draw the line between having it and not is somewhat arbitrary. But if people are struggling and having this diagnosis and these treatments helps with minimal downside then why not use them?

I recently got diagnosed and it may just be that I'm naturally very distractible and bad at paying attention. But if the diagnosis and meds make my life significantly better at minimal risk/cost then what's the harm?

Given it helps, I would not ask anyone to stop what they are doing. I was just curious if it might be more “placebo” than chemical, and clearly both the placebo and the chemicals are useful.

Meanwhile, I was just trying to provide extra data, i.e. it’s possible and acceptable to forgive yourself for not being perfect without any diagnosis.

Hopefully it just provides any one who reads this, one extra strategy to help themselves.

To forgive oneself is not universally easy. In those cases the problem isn't (only) ADH, but other issues. For someone very deep down the rabbit hole it might be the most crushingly difficult first step, indeed.

In what way is yelling at yourself to get excited going to work? How can you _really mean_ to get excited? Who on earth is in such masterful control of their emotional state that they can do this?

I personally think that we've taken something completely normal and turned it into a "disorder" simply because it goes against the societal norm of sitting quietly at a desk for 8 hours a day.

It's hard to describe, but it isn't just about work or not being able to sit for 8 hours at a desk. It pervades the rest of your life; often, even things you want to be doing, you simply cannot get started on, because your brain is filled with distractions and you do not have the executive function to be able to stop it.

It is a syndrome rooted in physical causes, but one we don't yet fully understand.

The research is very clear though: our brains are simply different.

It's ADHD when it seriously negatively affects your quality of life.

The difference is that even if you want to do something, often you simply cannot if the rest of your brain isn't playing along.

> Why is this ADHD and not just being human?

Because most people can work effectively on a project that they don't want to do by, for example, focusing on the positive benefits of doing the project or the negative consequences of not doing it. Someone with ADHD can go through the same reasoning and still not be able to pay attention and effectively work on the project.

Agreed. Everyone and their uncle has ADHD nowadays. All their arguments are complete BS and imo it’s derived from stressful contemporary life styles. “ADHD is wanting to do something but can’t” No, you don’t do it because it’s hard/boring/overwhelming/menial, not because you can’t. These people will pay later for the central stimulants. My friend is numb after starting with them but sure, he is productive.

I'm really glad to see that this is the top comment. This was my first reaction too, sounds a lot like ADHD.

This describes me pretty well. What is the test for ADHD and is it just a doctor's opinion if you have it or not?

Also is there any tangible benefits? I don't understand how just knowing provides enough benefit to bother going to a doctor.

Second all of that.

Driven to Distraction or Delivered From Distraction. But not both, they're effectively the same book.

Yeah, I could see that. Once I had an explanation, I wanted to read all of the things about it (heh, ironic)

I did find value in reading both, but mostly because it gave me a sense of history, and how much our understanding of what ADHD is had progressed from the past, and how my (incorrect) assumptions about what it was came to be.

YMMV :)

Besides reading this books, what else do you do that helps? Are you taking medication as well?

What is it that changed your life? Medication? Better understanding of yourself?

Medication could also change the life for worse because one risks getting psychosis.

This is simply false. Please read up on it before making claims that are unfounded.

Medication saves lives.

No, this is not false. Reddit is all over posts about this. Any medication has risks how can you deny this? If you take it you accept this (admittedly) small risk.

Sorry, I responded to an exaggeration with one of my own. Mea culpa.

Of course every medication has risks. You should evaluate them for yourself, with a physician.

However, generalizing that to “medication is dangerous and can cause psychosis, or death, and thus you shouldn’t take it because it can have side effects, even if it could otherwise help you” is garbage advice.

Also, the dosages at which stimulants and such are used for ADHD as a therapy (as opposed to abused) are generally quite small, fwiw.

True, but this is also the case if you have heart surgery to save your life.

There’s tradeoffs to everything.

I expanded on this elsewhere in the thread :)

This was very helpful. Thank you

Shit this explains me at work the last couple of months. I might have ADHD. Time to go see a doctor. Thank you!

Currently, I cannot read even one page of a book much less an entire book. I also get bored of people and interests easily.

Which type? I have ADHD-PI diag at 38, but it maybe a direct consequence of low testosterone.

It's interesting that the major parts of my body are very masculine while others aren't as much as they were. And, it's not Klinefelter's or a karyotype issue. Attractive members of my preferred gender for adult activities are frequently "shouting" overt interest nonverbally that doesn't register to me as anything other than a potential threat. My instincts should be of curiosity, delight, and novelty.

Starting on clomid tomorrow because the memory, concentration, alertness, and fluid/crystalized intelligences became disabled to the point where I cannot work. I may also have to take hCG too. An endocrinologist has to research the primary cause because it could be an HPG tumor or something else, because the low T issue is absurd.

Not to get into the other details but I’m finally getting over my fear of admitting I don’t read. Here’s what I’ve realized:

I’m always reading all of the time [zizek.gif]. I’m reading code, documentation, release notes, emails and texts… from the moment I wake til I sleep.

Put an interesting book in front of me and, well, I’m interested but getting my brain into a place where it can take in new reading sources is like getting my body in a place to take up running right after walking my dog. Not gonna happen.

And I’m not ashamed of it.

This is extremely interesting. I have many of your symptoms, including low test, and I was diagnosed with a a microadenoma on my pituitary gland 2 weeks ago.

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