When tipping and smiling are both expected at work, so is sexual harassment | Hacker News Reader

When tipping and smiling are both expected at work, so is sexual harassment

eurekalert.org

20 pointsrustoo24 comments

> also rely on tips to earn a living, it creates a power dynamic between the employee and customer that may increase the likelihood of sexual harassment on the job

In case of service employees, the fix seems simple: raise minimum wages so people can earn a proper living, abolish tips.

In other fields with such power dynamics, it's much harder to fix, e.g. winner-takes-it-all fields like Hollywood, high-profile academia etc.

I would very much prefer that we completely abolish tipping. My wife and I went to a restaurant recently where they had a sign on the table declaring that there would be a 20% tip automatically added to every bill because their employees are “worth more than $2.15 an hour“. I don’t know why but I found that to be very offensive, it’s as if saying yes our employees are worth more than $2.15 an hour, but we the business are not going to pay it.

Where do you think businesses get the money to pay for things

When a business has to shame customers into tipping or require mandatory tips, maybe they should not be in business? Perhaps that’s a little extreme, here’s a better one: raise the prices. Pay your employees a fair wage and stop whining that you can’t afford it, because you can afford it, and if you can’t, then perhaps your business model is not sustainable.

doesn't sound like they shamed. Sounds like they increased the price of a meal by 20%.

Of course they shamed. There is no other way to describe it. If they wanted to pay their employees more, they can simply do so. If they want to charge the customers more to pay for the employees, they can simply do so. There is no legitimate explicable purpose to packaging up this action in this very peculiar way.

I am just trying to imagine this is any other context. Just imagine my employers invoice for my programming or sysadmin time itemized as "$110 with an involuntary 20% tip because our analysts are worth more than plumbers"

If you're going to add 20% to every bill, then put that on the menu where you list prices. That's a not a $10 item, that's a $12 item.

Otherwise, the sanctimony is wrapped in condescension, communicating that not only do they think they're better than you for tipping (with your money) 20% rather than whatever lower percentage they thought you were going to top, they also think you're so stupid that you'll still think the prices printed on the menu are the actual prices.

Sounds like you got your wish. You ate at a place that abolished tips. In my book, a tip that's not optional is not a tip at all. It's a service fee.

They didnt abolish tips, they force customers to pay untaxed tips. There is a difference.

What does whether it's taxed or not have to do with it? (By the way, if the customer pays with credit card, that tip will most likely be taxed.)

If your automotive repair shop changed a line on their receipt from "20% service fee" to "20% obligatory tip which will be deducted from employee's pay check," it would work the same way.

I think you might be looking at this from the wrong direction, if I may. If you pay with your meal and put a tip on your credit card, you are taxed. When the server claims their tips at the end of the evening, those tips are than taxed. Those are two different things.

I was referring to the practice of restaurants not reporting income from cash tips but usually doing so for tips using credit cards, since an auditor can "see" that income.

I’m a bookkeeper for restaurant…Auto-gratuity is subject to sales tax in NY. Unsolicited tips are non-taxed.

Isn't that the whole tipping problem in a nutshell? It's this awful unfair system that even the customers don't want to participate in, but businesses force it on us for their convenience.

Something about this feels off to me. So does this mean expecting service with a smile is a bad thing? In my country there's no expectation of either a tip nor expectation of service with a smile, so this article kind of confuses me a bit. And from what I've witnessed neither of those assumptions out of the equation stops lecherous men, but we have to accept grumpy service workers. Nobody wins. I'm not saying men or women should exist for my service, in fact I hardly ever go anywhere with a (human) server, but the few times I do it's a pain to be treated like an annoyance (maybe that's why I don't go out much anyway).

it seems you're saying that since this wont stop all harassment, its not worth the try? since we'll "have to accept grumpy service workers."

>> So does this mean expecting service with a smile is a bad thing?

no, it means "requiring" or asking for someone to smile is a bad thing when you are holding the power of their income (tip) in your hands. Remove tipping, less power for the customer to tell the server what to do/how to actq

Note I'm not American, the whole "service with a smile" thing sounds like such an "Americana" concept to me at least. And no I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the premise of the article sounds very distant to the culture we got here.

I am an American, and this false friendliness on the part waiters grates on me and everyone I know. The worst is when they not only smile but introduce themselves, as if we’re meeting at a party or something. I don’t blame them; management requires it. Note that at high quality restaurants, this is uncommon. The waiters there are part of a serious enterprise and take it seriously. But at Olive Garden, be prepared for the servers to practically climb in your lap and show you their photo albums.

That doesn't sound good either. I don't know, if I'm going to eat somewhere at a huge markup I just don't want that annoyed "Ugh, ANOTHER one?" face. I don't chat and much less flirt, I just make an order. It's not uncommon to have the waiter vent at you (unprompted) because they got a degree and only managed to find work as waiters. It's just a lot of negativity for the high prices and not worth it anymore for me.

What doesn’t sound good? Waiters at good restaurants are not unpleasant. They have a job to do and they know how to do it. They are polite, efficient, and knowledgeable about the menu.

The "climb in your lap and show you their photo albums" part. I wouldn't want that either.

I just want some food without feeling guilty because everyone looks like they are doing me a favor for choosing to eat there, you know?

I certainly do. Maybe things would be better if everyone had to spend at least a summer in a job like this.

"... I've got respect for that. This is a horrible train and you're tearing tickets, of course you're in an awful mood. [A cheesy grin is] the sign of either a liar or a moron."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9PSg0sQyfs

This topic is really dicey because as soon as you start exploring the positive aspects of tipping and expectations of service with a smile, you open yourself up criticisms of not caring enough about sexual harassment victims.

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