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I had a similar experience at Amazon. About midway through the onsite at Amazon I kind of decided "I don't think I'd like working here and I already have other offers, so my brain will be going into neutral now." and kind of checked out. Felt very much like the interviewers didn't want to be in the room with me and just wanted me to fuck up so they could click "No hire" in the HR app and get out.

Walked out figuring I probably wouldn't get an offer, but given they apparently needed a ton of people maybe they'd down level me and offer (I figured I'd checked out to the point there was no way I'd get that SDE III level offer).

Recruiter actually sent me a very nasty email accusing me of wasting her time, I must be a bad engineer who over sold my experience, blah blah blah. Made it sound like I was blacklist for life. Three weeks later a hiring manager emails me and is like "So I found your interview notes in our internal database, you look like an amazing candidate and I want to fast track your hire onto my team."

I have no idea what is going on Amazon, I mean they built AWS so this must work on some level, but I just have such a bad taste in my mouth from my experience I don't want in on it. Maybe it's working as intended in that they want a process that skews toward hiring certain personality types so having other folks self select out is a win for them. Although I get pinged by them 2x a month and regularly offered fast track hirings based on those notes from that interview I did 14 months ago which is also weird. Which makes me think it's more likely their hiring a mess and they survive via throwing money at the problem and big old RSU offers at candidates.

e: Actually not 14 months, it was pre COVID lockdown, so even further back.

If you bombed your interview amazing candidate could be code for they need someone to hire to fire.

It's that subtle view into what your life might become that makes it so much easier to decline to move on. I'll admit, it's probably easier when I already had a job that paid well and I didn't hate...

A recruiter that couldn't keep it professional... that is EXACTLY how I felt! I get that when you work for FAANG, you're used to the stigma your company carries. And you're used to people salivating over the idea of working for you. But there are some of us out here who already make a decent wage, and have been in the business long enough that we don't see having FAANG on our resume as the most important thing. I'm at the phase of life now where I really am interviewing YOU as much as you're interviewing ME. If I don't like what I see, I can walk away.

Amazon has a hiring status that is basically “probably good to hire, but not a fit for my team”. Other team managers can go check that status and look for candidates that have been through the process already and basically do 1 short interview then hire the person. I think it’s called recycling?

HR and anyone in engineering have no idea who each other are, and never talk. It's not some top to bottom well oiled machine. It's all random and hit or miss.

I got a similar feeling when Amazon once reached out to me.

I got a recruiter email and I wasn't super interested in working there, but was a little curious, so I responded. They wouldn't tell me what project it was or what I would be doing exactly, but said that once I was brought in for a full interview loop I'd sign an NDA and they'd tell me all about it. I said I wouldn't mind having a conversation on the phone just to learn what I could from the hiring manager since I wasn't comfortable spending time on a phone screen if I wasn't even interested in the job or the project. The recruiter set me up with a call with somebody on the team.

So I had a phone conversation with somebody on the team, expecting it would be an informal chat about what they do and what they're looking for, but after about 20 minutes they started asking me design and behavioral questions (i.e. given situation X, tell us what you would do). I was really annoyed because I just wanted to get a feel for what the role entailed and what they were looking for, but they turned into a sort of interrogation to see if I had what it takes to join at all.

I was already starting to look for a new job at the time and was familiar with Amazon's principles, so was sort of prepared for it and I answered all their questions quite well, and they seemed happy. I kept trying to steer it back to things I wanted to know, however, but it was hard.

Overall, I felt like the call was a waste of my time since I didn't learn anything about the job. I guess you could say it saved me time later since I decided not to respond to any future emails that other recruiters sent me.

I interviewed for a Sr. Technical Product Manager role at AWS. This was shortly before Covid happened.

Every interview seemed to go well until the on-site. It literally felt like I was wasting their time. They gave me very bad holier than though vibes. It seemed like every answer I gave was just given a head nod then on to the next question. They asked very basic level PdM interview questions. Things I would expect a first time PdM to know, which surprised me because I was interviewing for a Sr. role.

I assume I didn’t integrate their “principles” enough into my answers because I was rejected and put on a 6 month waiting list to reapply again.

That ended up being the last straw for me. I was already on the fence about working at a BigTechCo based on previous bad experience. I ended up starting my own company. Best decision I could have made.

Wow, https://www.haekka.com/ looks awesome. Security awareness based on culture-building, delivered as a Slack app. This is such a tricky market to frame viable, accessible solutions for. Very cool approach.

The "free training" links at the bottom of the site also caught my eye, and I found they link to long-form one-pagers. So now I'm learning about https://docs.haekka.com/hipaa-training, with https://docs.haekka.com/Free-SOC-2-Training-ee02fd6d1b3044c7..., https://docs.haekka.com/Free-GDPR-Training-6c099e88af2642a59... and https://docs.haekka.com/Free-Security-Training-55722324e2424... queued. A nice touch.

(I really like the site design :) pixel-art FTW)

> My feeling on those who use LeetCode as some sort of indicator.

I'm fine if you need me to at least demonstrate _basic_ competency with a few simple Leetcode questions. There are a LOT of candidates who don't actually know what they're doing (either they're new or incompetent). It's okay for you to make sure that I have half a clue of what I'm doing. The problem becomes when Leetcode is used as an actual measurement of competency ceiling.

The best engineers I work with would completely fail at Leetcode challenges because they've found easier, simpler ways to implement something.

For example, anything that lodash provides is Leetcode/HackerRank under the hood (not a dig a lodash, just the type of problems Leetcode tends to ask about). I would expect a senior engineer to be able to replicate any of that code, but I'd first expect them to know that it's not worth their time to replicate that code. Instead, they should find a well tested tool instead.

I interviewed with google, fb, and amazon and fb really felt like the more human interview of the three. Now, do I like the leetcode/system designs interviews of fb? Nope. But definitely the least bad.

The biggest problem I have with those "canned" systems, is that there's no real conversation. I have a REALLY hard time even understanding what's being asked. In a real environment, I can ask probing questions. I have had to do a TON of HackerRank, LeetCode, and Code Katas to get used to how the questions are framed. But, I definitely enjoy solving those types of puzzles.

How long ago was this? Its been a while since I talked to either amzn or fb, but their processes were basically the same to me. Your description of amzn was almost exactly what I experienced with fb. It would be nice to hear hiring practices changing at a big tech co though.

Spring/Summer 2020

Amazon was rebranded LeetCode for their "entrance level". FB was writing code in what appeared to be more Microsoft Word-like. (There was no console to check my work). But the conversations with actual humans was where things diverged. The systems design stuff for Amazon was very "we're looking to zing you". Facebook was definitely "hmmm, that's an interesting approach, have you considered....?" or "That sounds like it would work but, what if we...." That type of interviewing really makes one feel like they're part of a team instead of being completely alone. Amazon seemed to thrive on the "you're scared, alone, and you need to build a bloom filter and figure out an efficient hashing algorithm NOW." I realize this is probably not everyone's experience. I am not saying "Amazon sucks, all their interviews are bad" I was simply sharing my experience as it's what led me to remove my candidacy.

For sure. The last time I talked to both FB and AMZN, I came in as a higher level referral for a specific job into both. But like a year or two earlier than yours.

AMZN's was very pleasant, though I think because I was a referral, I was side channeled and would have gone through their normal unpleasant process eventually if it was a good fit (it wasn't).

My FB interview was very similar to your AMZN description. They gave me a CS interview guide, told me to spend a few weeks studying it, and did the algorithm lottery on me. The main reason I declined to move forward was because they couldn't guarantee I'd actually get the role I was referred into and basically none of the process was role-relavant. It felt indistinguishable from the AMZN tech interview.

FWIW, the FB recruiter I spoke with also sent me Leetcode links. But the rest of the process was one of the best interview experiences I had, for a company of this scale. Not sure how well FB takes care of its employees, but they sure take good care of candidates.

I had a very similar experience with Amazon and Facebook interviews.

> I now see those tests as nothing more than a way to reduce the number of applicants.

More like a way to discriminate neurodiverse people. This is probably illegal, but I have not heard of anyone challenging it. If you create a test that certain people fail, that would otherwise do their job fine, then this is likely testing for protected characteristic and disguised as competence test.

Would you have to prove only that the test discriminates, or also that it was intended to discriminate? The latter sounds nearly impossible.

In the USA, intention is not necessary.