PCs Are Turning into Giant Phones | Hacker News Reader

PCs Are Turning into Giant Phones

wsj.com

29 pointsbookofjoe35 comments

This is a truly crap, say nothing article. Somehow Apple is now responsible for making all computers faster, lighter and slimmer, instead of it just happening every year anyway because it's what people want? How is that making it closer to my phone? Can't get cellular connections in laptops, hunh? Maybe if you only buy off shelf at Best Buy. Seems like real filler content for people who don't know anything about computers.

This person has no idea what they are talking about. WWAN cards have been in laptops for 25 years. 2-in-1s have been around for about 20. Every "trend" here is decades old.

Beyond that the tracking indicators are also nonsense. People buy new cell phones. But for maybe 10 or so years, they've been buying more and more used laptops because it has mattered less and less. This means the comparison isn't the same.

Also it's always been a family computer more than a personal computer. Every person will have a cell phone that gets damaged and must be replaced every few years but many people have just 1 laptop per household which lasts basically until it can no longer be operated.

Also these things really aren't merging. For instance, the builtin cameras on laptops are still pretty terrible and other interesting things like the screen on the back of the cell phone for notifications (many implementations are around) don't have equivalencies in the laptop world. And what about a rear facing camera on a laptop, know of any? Why not, I thought they were merging!

As far as applications, there's really far-from-working things like anbox https://anbox.io/ but it's still mostly a pipedream. Have laptops ship with ARM daughter boards with android installed and have a seamless bridge for integrating applications between the desktop and daughterboard as a typical technology then I'll start to agree with this analysis.

Have transportability of a running application from the mobile device to the laptop so I can swap the device I'm using to interface it and have the interface change in a way that affords each device (as in touch versus keyboard centric), all without losing application state, then I'll agree.

Currently these are ridiculous fantasies. They shouldn't be. But they are.

The only merging that exists is because they share tech, but that's obvious, they're both portable computers. Yes, they both have the same storage and battery tech, no kidding. So what?

https://archive.ph/KoaAk

Thanks for this link, WSJ is always paywalled.

For hardware, I agree. I thought the headline was about software - larger touch-friendly buttons, and more locked-down sandboxes for software. But after drooling over iPhone CPU hardware for a while and being put off by the app store design, I'm very interested in a M1-based machine that I could write my own software on. So Apple's tablet-based hardware is getting a more PC-like OS.

Isn’t the Linux on M1 project making good progress? The M1 mini could be a pretty good Linux box someday.

It's been developed so fast! I think official kernel support will be released with 5.13, so just a few weeks now.

> Perhaps most transformative, laptops will eventually get direct connections to cellular networks, including 5G.

"The better to surveil you with, my dear," replied the wolf.

Eventually? I have had Thinkpads with build-in cellular modem since at least 2004. (And I have used them under Linux. Fun memories of wvdial back in the days.) I have not had 5G in a laptop yet, but direct internet access over a cellular network, without wifi is REALLY not new in laptops.

I am typing this comment on a Thinkpad X210 sporting a Telit LM960 and an unlimited T-Mobile SIM, but it can't pinpoint me with centimeter precision :)

https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-...

https://www.5gradar.com/news/vodafone-tracking-tech-pinpoint...

https://techship.com/products/telit-lm960-lte-cat-18-gps-mpc...

This says your modem supports Galileo and GPS, or do you mean the cell provider themselves can't pinpoint you?

Also, networks are shutting down a lot of 3G equipment[0]. I'm sure in 15 years LTE will be shut off as well.

0: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/27/22457255/verizon-att-3g-s...

> or do you mean the cell provider themselves can’t pinpoint you?

This, but with the caveat that I view the telecom cartel as an extension of government and not as separate entities that cooperate only when needed. Joseph Nacchio can tell you how it will go down if any of them tried to stand up for the rights of individuals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveilla...

Our current technologies are already very good at this. Forgive me for committing an Internet Sin to make my point, but here’s my actual real-world “coarse” location derived from LTE, shown via SignalReborn (no relation to the chat app) on my jailbroken iPhone. The blue dot is my GPS location for comparison, the green line is my active LTE base station, and the red dots are all the base stations in my device’s cache: https://i.imgur.com/cDLnuQk.png

As you can see, a lot of location info can be derived from just one LTE tower plus the signal/noise info of my device. Triangulate three LTE towers and it’s easy to see what building I’m in. 5G is not only technically more capable in this regard, but everyone will have it in every device. 5G on my laptop will be able to tell which side of the bed I’m sitting on. 5G on my watch will be able to tell if I wore taller shoes today. Anyone trying to hide will just invite more scrutiny.

I’m not trying to stop the future from occurring, but I hope we can all be aware of what we’re giving in exchange for all this nice connectivity.

I have had Thinkpads with build-in cellular modem since at least 2004.

I wonder if the author is young and missed the era when people would slap cellular modems into their PCMCIA slots. I had one for my PowerBook around 2001.

Telephony is though. As very few devices can do that.

10 years ago it was hard. These days the data connection over the cellular network is fast enough that you can just use VOIP and a provider like SIPgate that gives you access to the plain old telephony system. You can even move that number freely between your cellphone, your laptop and your desktop. Or use google phone I guess.

I know. But I spoke of devices that can actually use telephony. Not VoIP, that was possible all the time.

This for example: https://github.com/bg111/asterisk-chan-dongle/

honestly ridiculous that cellular modems weren't already ubiquitous on laptops ten years ago

I've never used the cellular stuff in my laptops because it's easy enough to use my phone's connection.

No need to pay for two connections.

Enough providers in Europe are willing to sell you a second SIM card for a one time fee ($5 to $15) that shares the data budget with the sim card in your phone. Only trick is to configure which of the two SIM cards gets SMS for your number. (Yes you can pick the one in your laptop and yes you can pull the SMS from the cellular modem using AT commands. But it get's annoying after a about a day of nerd glee.)

It's really nice to only have to worry about one battery, and the physically-larger size of the device gives way more wiggle room to play with Antenna Diversity. I have this setup myself and am not trying to be a luddite: https://i.imgur.com/rUKf33K.png

All the replies are missing my point though since this is currently a niche feature that will eventually be standard for everyone, everywhere. General-purpose computing loses the expectation of spatial privacy, and an individual opting out will just draw the Eye Of Providence's gaze toward them, like how using Tor or reading LKM.net puts you on a list today.

Maybe because we keep changing specifications and modems and antenna designs every few years.

Just the devices I've owned:

AMPS → GSM → PCS → 3G → VOCsomethingverizon → LTE → WiMAX → 4GLTE → 5G

Why? Was there much of a market for it? At least where I am cellular data is stupid expensive compared with curb internet.

As it becomes more affordable though I might be willing to pay an extra $50 for a cellular chip. Not until then though for my use case at least. Keep in mind that a lot of iPads are sold without cellular as a cheaper option.

I've been wanting it in every tablet/laptop for at least a decade, but I've never bought one since the monthly data is priced as if made of solid gold. The cost is just too impractical over just using USB/wifi tethering.

I've had a 13" ultrabook w/ cellular for a couple years now and it's the best thing ever.

This is already an option on a large number of business laptops.

The long-awaited sequel to 2007's unforgettable "why phones are turning into miniature PCs"

This article's first line is effectively what you're saying, for reference:

https://venturebeat.com/2008/07/02/mbit-makes-p2p-possible-o...

I'm old enough to remember when mainframes were turning into personal computers

https://archive.is/8K3L4

> For everyday tasks both at home and at work, we have long had a choice: pull out a heavy brick with a noisy fan, a pixelated display, a few hours of battery life and a tenuous connection to the internet; or reach for that instant-on, always-connected, app-stuffed supercomputer in our pockets.

What? My XPS 13 is not heavy or noisy, certainly doesn't have a pixelated display and my wifi is the same (excellent) whether I'm using my phone or my laptop.

That's not true for most people. For many people their phone is their most powerful computer, and their cell connection is faster than their home internet. I'm in a suburb just outside denver and my choice for internet is a 1mbp/s dsl line, or pay over $100 a month for 200Mb down/ 1 Mb up, or just use 5g which is more than sufficient for what most people do at 20Mb down / 1Mb up.

This might be an EU thing, but mobile data is usually highly limited, while home connections are very rarely. Sure, having 200 MBit/s is nicer than 50, but at least you can use it for more than 5 minutes.

Also, even with the rather beefy phones released recently, I highly doubt they can outperform an average laptop CPU, let alone a desktop one.

"For most people" highlights the glaringly flawed framework of superficial articles like this. Of course laptop sales are going down - the only reason they were so high is that they used to be the easiest way to get to the Web. Just like desktop PCs were before laptops. Now that the masses have pocket WebTVs, they no longer need to buy laptops.

Likewise for Internet connections, as you point out. But people who depend on Internet access will value faster wired access rather than limp along with cell service. Perhaps they'll even move to somewhere with more modern wired service than a paltry 1Mbit.

Seconded. Ultrabooks have been around for nearly a decade now and they are light as well as having excellent battery life.

I've been using them since 2015 and, combined with a docking station, they're the perfect mobile and home work environment, without any of the drawbacks of a phone (small display, no keyboard, hardly any multitasking, limited storage...). In my university, ultrabooks basically dominated the class room, so it's not only me.

An XPS 13 with ~4K screen & Windows Pro without Office costs $1650. That is similar to what the Apple top model iPhones costs.

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