Audi will halt new gas and diesel cars by 2026
driveteslacanada.ca
driveteslacanada.ca
EDIT: Just to add that the reviews didn't really represent to me the car that I got. They largely compared it to performance Teslas, and noted that it was slower, shorter-ranged and less efficient than Teslas. But I think a lot of reviewers miss the point. A fast Tesla (LR models, let alone performance) is so fast it beats my motorbike, which is normally faster than most performance ICE cars. I think the general public haven't quite grokked that yet, so have no idea just how fast 300hp with torque available all the time actually is.
"People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change" - so .. you're admitting it's not in the state it needs to be, and you're hoping that changes in the future? I'm moments away from heading out on a backcountry trip in the desert east of the cascades - how long would you estimate it would take for fast charging points to exist even within even a hundred miles of where I'm about to go? I'm also able to just strap on extra gallons of fuel if I want to extend my range even further.
"The smooth constant acceleration" - Not really sure how this is a benefit at all, unless you're comparing sports cars.
"quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider.
"not needing to visit petrol stations" - I guess this is a benefit, of course it's offset by needing charging infrastructure both in your house and wherever you go, neither of which exist for me, but what does exist are millions of gas stations which are incredibly convenient to get to and spend 5 minutes at in order to be able to drive hundreds of more miles. There will be a gas station in the tiny towns on my route today, there won't be charging stations, let alone fast charging stations.
"long service intervals" - There's some benefit here, although you still have regular maintenance that still has to be done, it doesn't eliminate it. Even still, it's a trivial amount of time to do basic maintenance on my vehicle.
"lack of particles coming out the back" - As long as the electricity you power it with didn't come from a dirty source, like most are, sure.
In general, if all you use your vehicle for are little trips around the area of a major city, then yeah you can make it work. If you actually use your vehicle as a vehicle, it still doesn't remotely make sense.
This is for me the single biggest reason I will never go back to an ICE car, after driving a Model X for 4 years now. My wife drives a small petrol car (Renault Clio) and I hate the sound of the engine so much.
Do you have experience driving an electric car as a daily? Or just countering all arguments as an exercise?
I suspect that there will be some substantial subset of users and use cases where PHEVs will make sense for a very long time.
And the acceleration and quiet ride are nice. It’s just one of those things you don’t appreciate till you have for a while. Like backup cameras.
Smooth acceleration will help prevent someone getting car sick. Similarly, absence of car exhaust helps, too.
And it's a lot easier to capture pollution at the source of centralized power generation vs hundreds of million of cars, but I am just stating the obvious here.
If anything, your "counter points" -- while acknowledging the tech isn't perfect, are actually making a strong argument for electric cars.
As far as gas vs electric infrastructure it's genuinely perplexing that someone would argue for the former over the latter. For one thing, electricity is a lot more useful than gas! It's also safer, easier and cheaper to transport.
It also exists basically everywhere, even if the current infrastructure is not up to spec, you can still charge an electric car with a regular outlet with no special considerations.
Every thing you are saying is a detraction is really just pointing out solutions that are still in the early stages, but absolutely will get here vs problems we have just accepted from ICE.
It's not common to put the motors in the wheels.
As in, a smaller electric motor right next to the wheel?
Smooth acceleration is more a comfort thing. I normally use a manual, but even with an automatic, you're probably used to the shifts and the loss of torque - it's more comfortable on your neck to not have this.
Re: quietness - I do an hour commute each way, and I've done it in cars that aren't sound proofed well - I've had my ears ringing slightly on arrival. However, above 50mph noise is more to do with tyres and wind than the engine. A quieter car means I can listen to the radio and my music without hurting my ears, and conversations in the car can be casual without me shouting.
To add to long service intervals - less things to go wrong. An electric engine is simple. Don't need to change oil, don't need to worry about a gearbox, don't worry about the exhaust going, or the clutch, or the timing belt, or the fuel injectors.
Your last point - car engines are less efficient than a power station at converting fossil fuels into energy. I don't know whether they produce less particulates (my guess would be they do as our country burns natural gas which is simpler than petrol/diesel), but they don't push it out into the faces of people walking, or the air intake of the car behind.
FWIW, my personal observations after putting 80k miles on a BEV:
- Range: I haven't visited the White Mountains in Eastern CA yet because I haven't been able to confidently solve the charging situation. Otherwise, I've ranged from Mendocino to LA to Tahoe with no concerns.
- Acceleration: It's more the punch for me. It's just fun to hit the accelerator and be instantly thrust back into the seat. My 328i was awesome, drove it for 20 years. My BEV is more fun.
- Quiet: Music is important to me while driving. The very quiet ride enhances listening.
- Charging: I did pay ~$2,000 to put a 90 Amp drop into the garage. I'm paying 12 cents/KWh. The only time I need to use a charge station is on long drives.
- Long Service Intervals: It's not the time. It's the cost. By 80k miles on the BMW, I'd spent $5k on brakes, oils changes/tune ups, a radiator and thermostat. The BEV cost about $1k for a windshield. $0 for anything else. Thanks to regen braking, I've got 85% of my original brake pads left.
The only power stations that are producing a bunch of particles similar to an ICE car are coal plants and even with Trump doing his whole "Trump digs coal" nonsense these plants didn't make any economic sense any more. They made less than a quarter of America's electricity in 2020 and that fraction has been falling for years.
Also, unlike your car exhaust, which is literally where your car is, the coal plant's exhaust is typically over 100 metres above the plant. It's still filthy, but at least it isn't, for example, right outside a primary school, or arm's length from a passing jogger.
It's FAR from superficial. Go for a test drive in a luxury car. You'll notice that you can listening to the radio even at high speeds is much easier, taking calls, same, heck, even talking.
It's one of those things you only notice in reverse: if you've never had it, you don't know what you're missing, but once you've experienced, for sure you're going to hate going back.
Of course, you can get used to everything, some people don't even riding in a horse drawn carriage with solid wheels and no suspension :-p
You had some pretty good points until this dismissive part. Believe it or not, but there are millions of people who don't ever need or want to travel more than 100 miles both ways. And don't really need a truck either.
Just because your use case isn't the same as theirs, you don't get to decide whether what they have is a "vehicle" or not.
Glad you are otherwise happy with the car. I went electric nearly three years ago, and it has been great.
Tesla's $35,000 car was a lie, but even if it wasn't, for real mass market adoption, it needs to be hitting low-mid $20's range.
My theory is that the rise of EVs will coincide with a rise in pricing for all vehicles. Instead of EVs getting cheaper, ICE cars will get more expensive.
[1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-now-the-average-pr...
If I read this correctly, they will not introduce new product lines starting 2026, and, stop selling ICE cars entirely in 2028. Is that the correct reading?
If so, it seems monumental(?) that a company like Audi would endeavor to transform their company from ICE (97% in 2020) to 100% BEV (3% in 2020) [0] over 8 years. The manufacturing supply chain and employee composition (including sub-tier suppliers) will endure a period of major change.
[0] https://insideevs.com/news/465756/2020-audi-etron-electric-c...
edit: OK sounds like "e-branded" might also include things like the "Audi A3 TFSI e" which is a PHEV
That's a petrol engined car, but it's a PHEV, if you plug it in to the wall in my country in about six hours (so overnight or while at the office) you've got 40 miles manufacturers range on battery.
In many countries that are banning new sales of pure ICE cars over the next decade or so, PHEVs remain legal. So yes I can see these variants still existing in Audi's range in 2030, while the plain Petrol variants are now end-of-line.
Meanwhile Audi has other models which are actually BEVs with a much larger range (300+ miles between charges) of course, and those would definitely continue to be refined under this policy.
They could easily turn Audi into their Tesla-competing luxury brand and have it pure EV, while still having VW (and Skoda in Europe) pump out ICE vehicles like crazy, and impact nothing in terms of overall CO2 emissions.
There are upcoming European regulations that limit the CO2 output of cars, but on a fleet level. These Audi cars will go electric so that the rest of the fleet can formally stay not-electric.
Can't really think of 2010 to 2020 being that transformative.
But yeah, it'll require a huge investment in charging infrastructure and the resources to generate the energy for those.
From a Southeastern Europe perspective - the charging infrastructure just doesn't exist here - I don't know how much that region is worth for Audi, but they probably don't want to lose all of that - same for a lot of regions around the world.
Hybrids mostly exist to tick a regulatory box, so a fully electric-only range will be a long time coming without further government intervention.
[0] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/audi-verbrenner-elekt...
"Editor‘s note: A previous version of this article stated Audi would stop making gas cars by 2026. Instead, Audi will no longer bring new gas cars to market by 2026. This has been corrected."
I personally wish they would just continue selling gas cars, but with a lifetime fuel emissions offset built into the price. That would rapidly improve the maturity of carbon offset markets, which is needed for decarbonization across many industries (not just automotive) and has been slow going.
Random math: 200e3miles/(30miles/gallon)*8.89kg/gallon*$100/(1000kg) ~= $6000
Bonus can use the excise tax revenue to fund buyback and down payment assistance programs. Helping someone replace their older gas car with a new(er) electric also results on a lot less political blow back than raising the gas tax.
You end up with the bosses live five minutes away from work (convenient). And their employees live 30-50 miles away. And the boss never sees that cost on the corporate balance sheet.
Your question is really assuming everyone has the money for the practical EV vehicle they need and that they live in or near enough locations for charging. That is only the case for a small but growing portion of society.
Hybrids are basically a joke, something just to make you feel good about yourself. Slow, boring behemoths.
Audi’s electrics are lagging behind Tesla by several years. In the absence of Tesla it could’ve been an option if you were after an e-car, but as it stands now it’s like buying an upscale SVGA card instead of a GPU.
And then you look at what Audi does the best and realize that a fully loaded S6 is cheaper than Tesla AND it comes with a round steering wheel! Bah, I’ll take two.
[0]https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42615
Now of course I don't know the efficiency, or amount of pollutants (CO2 and other) released compare between gas engines and coal/natural gas power plants, so the actual increase in mileage and environmental benefit might be different, but it is certainly not 100%.
Has anyone come across any study that compares the two?
Public transport, remote working and so on have a much much larger impact IMHO.
[0] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-...
The better option is to not own a car at all, and walk/bike/transit your way around.
The S Series is the best of them all, practically priced, all the enhanced features, and an enjoyable ride.
All that said, I do look forward to another EV. The best part of Audi / Porsche and other higher end manufactures with experience in building more luxury vehicles, is that it will put pressure on Tesla.
Congrats on the S6! It's a fantastic car.
IMO you are spot on with the quality remark, especially compared to Teslas. In that aspect Teslas were underwhelming - from the quality of the materials used for the interior, to the infamous door gap issue, to the paint job that causes detailers to charge extra for Teslas, because they require “special handling”.
Apparently they improved the material quality in the 2021 model S, but they then had to shoot themselves in a foot with the yoke and the removal of the gear shifter. These two changes make as much sense as putting driver seat backwards and mounting a TV screen in front of them. Yes, looks dope. Yes, can be done. No, shouldn’t be the default, leave alone the only option.
Environmental issues aside, this sounds like a comically impractical vehicle.
The Model S Plaid features Tesla's first-ever triple-motor system, producing a staggering 1,020 horsepower and 1,050 lb-ft of torque.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2021/2022-tesl...
I got a Volvo XC60 T8 last year, a plug in hybrid. Rated at 400bhp total. Silly amount of power, way more than anyone needs. But.....I very rarely use it. The electric range of about 25 miles means I complete 95% of my daily journeys on electric power alone. My long term efficiency is about 120mpg(imperial). But that power is still there if I need it - it had absolutely no problems accelerating to and going 140mph on the autobahn, it was great for a 800 mile drive across Europe. It's spacious, comfortable......and the fuel economy is great in daily use.
But I feel like I grew out of a stage where a supercharged Range Rover V8 or a GLE63 AMG would have been the dream - my next car will be full EV if anything.
(And of course we need to blame the regulators that allow this, also knowing fully well what is happening.)
Where I live they're almost exclusively leased for a period of 12 months or less and are used mostly in large cities.
I can only speculate that it's a status symbol, which for some is more important than small details such as miles per gallon.
Pray tell why you think that I “would eventually kill someone”.
The only situation where I see fast acceleration being dangerous is where other cars are pulling out and seeing you are traveling slowly but not expecting you to accelerate fast. They are likely to pull out on you. I think if you're accelerating hard you have to be aware of this and not do it before junctions or be prepared to ease off.
Appeasing that mentality is not the solution.
A model X has about that same power, goes faster for it, and you can put a dead body in the front where the engine isn't.
I do think that electrical vehicles have a lot of potential, but there are certainly lots of things that should be addressed.
However, i also fear that more and more electrical components will eventually make cars harder to maintain and operate. For example, a Nissan Patrol was an exceedingly simple car (had a 3rd generation one). I fear we'll never see that sort of simplicity again.
Once it deteriorated, workable electric infrastructure should be there.
Further, when saying ‘created,’ I am talking more about a market effect on a larger section of the population.
I would honestly like to understand.
What’s difficult to understand?
I currently own a 2007 diesel station wagon, mostly by accident. It's a hand-me-down from my parents. Fuel consumption is 4.25l/100km (~55 mpg).
It's plenty comfortable to me. It has the safety features that matter (ABS, airbags and whatnot). I've never ended up in an unsafe situation due to a lack of acceleration either. It's got plenty of cargo capacity on its own. In the unlikely event I need more, I can easily hook up a trailer. Which is exactly what I plan to do on the way to the holiday house this summer. Plenty of rather rough unpaved roads there, and yet hardly an SUV to be seen.
All of this fits well with a personal strategy: - frugal. I try not to spend more than the median unskilled labourer reasonably can. - political. I try to make sure as little as possible money goes to Russian (48%), Saudi (~20%) or other middle eastern (~5%) oil firms of vey questionable ethical reputation. Just thinking of Mohammed Bin Salman is stomach turning enough for me to lower my speed to the fuel efficiency optimum. - ecological. Used car, fairly clean burning engine, using it as little as possible, driving it at optimal speed ~90km/h (~56mph) .
My significant other is on board with this. The tradeoff was between owning a car or not. She absolutely wants one. I absolutely want what we own to be frugal, aligned with our political choices and ecological.
I can really appreciate the engineering that went into a massive engine, very much so. Same for a friend's custom leather car upholstery rework. True work of art. An acquaintance of a friend's converted an old Volvo 240 to run on wood (!) [0]. To me, the comfort and fun you described sound bland, hollow, empty even in comparison.
Why go with the boring highly polluting v8 when you can get something similarly boring with more positive externalities instead?
I enjoy translating poetry from Japanese and Spanish. I enjoy playing classic and modern music on piano-- I played violin in an orchestra when I was younger. I enjoy learning to read various writing systems. I love watching films new and old, including those of Kieślowski & Roy Andersson. I have fallen in love and been loved. I have eaten a Liège waffle in a park watching the sunset. I have arrived in Paris at 6pm and walked around with a camera until my train left at 10am. I have sat on the grass outside a Mexican airport drinking beer with other travelers and employees waiting for the massively delayed single flight of the day. I enjoy sailing, swimming, cycling.
In addition to those other bland, hollow and empty pursuits and experiences, I also have a passion for driving and autosport.
Every trip I make by car requires me to, from a stop sign with no ramp, enter or cross a 65 mph divided highway that is often busy. It's happened many times where I've pulled into an empty lane and a car going faster than 70 switches to my lane and closes in at a dangerous rate behind me as I'm still accelerating. Sometimes cars accelerate spontaneously after I've entered a gap that is normally plenty of room. Other times, drivers behind me rage with horns or dangerous maneuvers if I don't enter when they feel it's safe. All those are solved (save for errant hypercars) with a simple sub 4 second 0-60 time and the stability of all wheel drive.
In addition, on road trips, I can close the exhaust valves, raise the ride height and soften the suspension. Then, I can talk to other people in the car without shouting, and I don't have tinnitus ringing in my ears for hours after. Those two things are definitely not boring.
Hooking up a trailer ramps up the inconvenience significantly if you're just driving to a beach condo or attempting to park in a normal lot. That said, my vehicle can tow around 4 US tons if I wanted to go that path.
I own two vehicles, One is a cheap base model Kia Soul that I got used for very little. I also own an F-350 Dually Super Duty King Ranch edition. I used to use the truck to tow my house (42 foot fifth-wheel). It's somewhere in the 500HP range, but I needed it for what I was doing at the time. Got about 8 MPG highway pulling the fifth-wheel.
Nowadays I use the cheap Kia for almost everything, because I don't need 500 ponies under the hood and parking that monster sucks as well.
I get that a cheap Kia maybe isn't a fun car for most people, especially when they can afford a lot more car, but you don't need to get a giant SUV just to spend a lot of money on a nice/fancy car.
Do you have literally any specific need for that vehicle other than the fear you won't be able to get one later? I just don't get it. It isn't like electric is lacking in power either.