Comment by kyriee | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kyriee | Hacker News Reader

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Your response to that problematic event seems like dealing with trauma and some of the words you use like “our society has become […] significantly more feminized” seem to indicate some of those issues are still unresolved.

While I appreciate that you turned this into a positive, I don’t think violence and tough love is something we should promote, celebrate or even tolerate as a society.

Here is a crazy thought: how about we strive to create a space where everyone feels valid as they are, where they feel that have a space where they can contribute, rather than make people feel like they have to toughen up in order to “take charge” or forcefully “making space” for themselves by forcing others to follow their will.

The guy hitting you was not an appropriate response, neither is you possibly disrupting class by cracking jokes. The solution is communication and respect. Getting buff and letting a culture of “boys will be boys” prevail is not.

Why do you think that people "as they are" are the best thing for society to have? What about the people who are violent and employ tough love, as they are? Should they feel valid too?

Your premise of "everyone feels valid as they are" written directly alongside "[we should not promote] violence and tough love" betrays the contradiction. What you actually mean is we should strive for everyone to change themselves to be feminized and noncompetitive, and the people who are already this way should feel valid.

"The solution [to dealing with a bully] is communication and respect" is not based in reality. No bully has ever responded to communication. What they do respond to, and what society responds to, because we have had it ingrained in our brain stems for millions of years, is masculinity and assertiveness, backed by a (perceived) threat of violence. I'm sorry that you don't like this, but it cannot and I argue should not be changed, short of chemically poisoning everyone's testosterone levels with microplastics.

My statement on the feminization of society doesn't come from trauma. Global testosterone levels have been dropping for decades[1]. You can see it in old pictures: men were less fat, more competitive, and happier. Rates of sex and relationships among men and young boys have dropped precipitously.

Speaking anecdotally, I feel most fulfilled when I embrace my masculine side and focus it on positive pursuits. Competition, pursuit of status, and power can all be good things if focused. This event unlocked that in me and helped me live a more fulfilled life I'm the long run.

In fact, your response is exactly what I'm talking about. Productive masculine behavior is shamed nowadays. That's sad to me.

[1] https://carraghermethod.com/the-hard-truth-for-men-declining...

> Rates of sex and relationships among men and young boys have dropped precipitously.

Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but it sounds a lot like you want a return of pederasty? Let's assume you mean relationships and sex with people of similar ages, what ages should we imagine when you say "young boys"?

I believe he isn't referring to sex between the two, just the total.

Well he did express a desire to return to traditional manliness, and you can't get more traditional than ancient Greece, right?

I think it's great that he managed to positively channel his masculinity, but I have my doubts at considering getting punched in the back of the head a good or acceptable thing, even though it may have had a positive outcome in his case. Perhaps I'm too feminized.

So then you'd be in favor of Universal Healthcare, subsidies for gym memberships for low income individuals, stricter regulations against lying/misleading in fast food/junk food, and stricter regulations/penalties for pollution?

Yes to all of that, but it's tangential to the main topic here.

> Productive masculine behavior is shamed nowadays

Can you list some examples for that? It just doesn't match my experience. When people complain about masculine behavior, it's never the productive kind.

Jumping at the opportunity to lead and fighting (figuratively) to spar with the instructor first seems like behavior that some would find heroic and others would find unfair. (note that boys that behave this way in elementary school are mostly advised to take medication to calm down and behave like their female classmates).

They say Ritalin is prescribed primarily for the teachers.

It doesn't really help the student all that much since they go from hyper, attention-seeking and not paying attention to stagnant, inhibited and disinterested (and still not paying attention).

I believe it does work for its purpose, but the dose is usually much too high and had to be taken often enough (it only lasts 3 to 4 hours) that the kid is pretty much constantly peaking then coming down.

Eventually they did create "extended release" tablets that probably fix that issue, so my experience may no longer apply.

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