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Comment by StandardFuture | Hacker News Reader

> inability to concentrate, confusion, alertness, consciousness, memory, anxiety, social, and sleep problems

Has anyone every genuinely done any research to check if an increase in theses resulting symptoms from decreasing T levels across men over the past few decades is highly-correlated to our seeming decline in productivity and generally stagnating GDP growth?

Can it be affecting the contributions of 50% of the population? Can it be affecting scientific, industrial, cultural, community, and familial contributions from men across society more than we realize?

And what would we actually do if we did realize this?

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How would that be controlled-for when there are shifts in unskilled and semi-skilled work around the globe, automation, local demographics changes, aging population, increasing densities of people (tending towards depression which also reduces aggression (T)), and massive income inequality increasing the economic stresses on the average person (that alone would kill T in all genders)?

> Can it be affecting the contributions of 50% of the population?

How would this be measured without a duplicate control Earth? Hypothetically: if everyone in sadder areas had as much food and money as they needed to be comfortable, I guarantee T levels would be much higher in men and women, there would be a lot more sex, a lot more happier people, and a lot more babies in 9 months.

> And what would we actually do if we did realize this?

The average person would probably do what they always do: shrug and do nothing. The plutocrats would only care if their top employees weren't performing optimally and would throw more money and/or better conditions at them.

So I have a bit of a unique perspective here; I’m a trans woman who has had “the surgery” so my body no longer produces its own testosterone (cisgender women get a little bit from their ovaries). So I take T in gel form, and I definitely notice if I don’t take it.

Symptoms of low T for me are difficulty sleeping, migraines, low sex drive and overall low energy. But it doesn’t take a whole lot to get me out of that range; just a tiny dab of gel rubbed in to my shoulder (for comparison, a man with low T would use an entire 1g tube every day). Low T that’s not super low doesn’t necessarily make any of that worse, and very high levels of T will actually convert into estrogen (which is why bodybuilders who abuse steroids can grow breasts and have shrunken genitals, and also increases emotional volatility).

And I think you’re right; there is a population benefit to lower levels of testosterone overall at a societal level that reduces conflict. Furthermore high T levels have a positive feedback loop with physical labor (building muscle is way easier the more T you have), so it makes sense your body would produce less if it isn’t trying to constantly repair muscle damage from strenuous physical activity. I would say that high T levels would be a liability in an office job; they make people quicker to anger and outright aggression is not taken positively in knowledge work. There may be benefits for physical labor, but definitely diminishing returns if you work a desk job.

Did I just read Alex Jones?

I'm almost certain this thread is just a transcription of a Joe Rogan podcast

That's disingenuous imo.

Attempting to discuss the well-documented statistical declines of testosterone in men is always and completely "Alex Jones"?

You need to get out more.

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