Saudi Arabia executes Mustafa al-Darwish for teenage protests | Hacker News Reader

Saudi Arabia executes Mustafa al-Darwish for teenage protests

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320 pointselsewhen162 comments

I got some flack giving a presentation that mentioned civilian participation in my organisations business by Chinese companies. The US Admiral that I was talking to (the topic was innovation - so no secrets) railed about us collaborating with entities that were alien to our core values. I could not reply - without unemployment - but all the time I thought about US support for Saudi - where the Admiral undoubtedly had served, and what kind of core values does that demonstrate?

To answer your specific comparison, I would say the values associated with capitalism.

Yeah, there are very few countries so far/further from core western values than Saudi Arabia. Which isn't outlandish considering how diverse world is, but the very strong and friendly relationships and military support from US is frikkin' crazy and amoral.

The country is run by psychopath cutting journalists to pieces at foreign embassies. I mean we're talking about the same level of primitive evil as some African dictators that ended with pretty harsh sentences at International Court of Justice.

And Trump basically pardoned the guy in the media from what I recall. I am curious if Biden's administration will change the US approach to him/SA or they keep quiet for enjoying their military bases there.

You already have your answer. The outrage is deafening.

Media outrage means next to nothing for these people, tomorrow the world will be outraged about the next topic. Imagine people like Putin living in their own world, outside situation has very little effect on their luxurious lives.

Concrete steps that would financially hurt those holding power, ie sanctions for their foreign accounts/investments means at least something.

Oli has a high value, one could say it's the core of western civilization.

Nope, the whole point of oil is that is has a VERY low value. Even "very expensive" oil at 140$ per barrel (that was the peak I think) makes $0.875 dollar per liter of crude oil, about 30 MJ worth of energy. Additionally you can make plastic, and ... out of it.

But it's far cheaper than the cheapest brand of bottled water, which apparently comes in at about $1.4 per liter, a little under double the price of the most expensive oil we've ever had.

The normal price say $60-80 per barrel these days, is 0.4$, or about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the price of bottled water.

Oil’s value is not just economic, but military. If you don’t control a pretty large source of oil, you won’t win the war.

Unless soldiers carry solar panels as suggested by VP Kamala Harris into the field. I guess night combat will be called on account of no sun ;) Gas still has a high energy density, so it will be important for the foreseeable future, military applications or otherwise.

That's actually a pretty interesting idea!

The commercially available panels with the highest specific power are about 700 W/kg (with an estimated upper bound of 1.2 W/kg) [1], in comparison to gasoline which is 12.5kWh/kg. Solar exposure can be about 5-6 hours of full sun equivalent per day. So the breakeven point would be about two to three days of charging!

[1] https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/1485564)

How about you compare the bulk price of untreated water to barrels of oil? I've no idea which will come out on top but at least the comparison will be fairer.

1) oil sales are denominated in US dollars

2) most countries import oil

1 + 2 = ???

Answer: most countries need dollars, because they need to import oil. If oil was not sold in dollars, the demand for dollars would be much lower.

Therefore, the US needs to control oil producers. If one producer gets out of line and decides to sell oil in another currency, the US will attack them.

And that is to say nothing about all the dictatorships the US sponsored in South America. The US was more than happy to train torturers in modern torture techniques.

Certainly. I think this is, to me, the clearest case for why the US has a moral imperative to contribute to mitigating the ensuing problems in that region (just as western Europe has one for much of the MENA region, ...), including hosting refugees and asylum seekers seeking protection in the US, providing aid when it is done accountably and constructively, etc.

Considering past history, I’d strongly recommend the US to not attempt to help, with the possible exception of the removal and prosecution of their puppets.

Western Europe has some things to make up for, but the US isn't involved in MENA? Remember Iran? I would blame Libya on Europe, but not the other wars.

I didn't say, and wouldn't say, that the US wasn't involved in MENA. I can understand how my previous comment may have implied that, for which I apologize, so it's worth clarifying. There's simply a difference in scale of involvement, as far as I can tell. Since you mentioned Iran, it looks even worse for the British than it does for the US by my reading. The coup in 1953, for instance, was spearheaded by the British who solicited US assistance, and was only the end of a long line of British exploitation of Iranian leadership (and oil) and the start of a slightly-shorter line of American exploitation of Iranian leaders.

Most of North Africa would probably be shared by the British and the French, Afghanistan seems to be shared by most of the "Global North" at this point, and so on. I definitely wouldn't say that the US doesn't have any responsibility here.

> Afghanistan seems to be shared by most of the "Global North"

Just remember the Taliban started as a US sponsored group that fought the Soviet invasion.

Without taking a side, most realpolitiks of the era will tell you (with a straight face) those dictatorships were aligned to America's "core values" - specifically anti-Communist.

Oh yes. The US tends to conflate capitalism with democracy when we all know capitalism works a lot more efficiently without a democracy to hold it back.

You might find that same Admiral would say the same to any president or congress pushing for cooperation with saudi arabia.

Core values being US/G7/NATO geopolitical strategy in the Middle East.

It's Realpolitik. If we refused to work with anyone who didn't mirror Western values, do you think that would be possible? I mean, do we just refuse to even engage most of Africa, the Middle East and Asia? That doesn't seem realistic.

I really respect this comment. It is the reason I visit HN daily instead of Twitter, Reddit, or Facebook.

Realism is the mark of adulthood.

Unassumed realism is not the mark of adulthood. If you sincerely agree then the stance you should hold is "I support atrocities if they benefit me and I don't care if other countries violate human rights".

From then on we can have a good discussion. But the above is using realism as an excuse instead of fully assuming it and taking it to its conclusion.

Adulthood (ie experience), demonstrates that you cannot fight on every front, against every adversary, and for every cause, simultaneously.

Adulthood means that you need to prioritize your goals, choose your battles, and set the stage for the progress you want to make.

Simply refusing to deal with anyone that doesn't adhere to your ethical values is what my teenage daughter does, quite literally.

If you care about ethics, then you would try to improve the situation in Saudi Arabia, which is much more fragile and more subject to US influence, instead of trying to do so in China which is a superpower you will only ever antagonize.

The comment above wasn't about prioritizing the best targets to pursue your ethical goals. It's about ignoring them but pretending they still matter. They don't matter. If we care about ethics at all we wouldn't orchestrate coups instead of forgoing a bit of oil revenue.

Well of course. The issue is then pretending your core values are anything else.

I do sympathize with how it must have felt during that presentation, but I do wonder why anyone would take the words of any high ranking US military official serious at all, at anything they say. After all, they are just representatives of an ideologically warped criminal enterprise, perpetually serving the interests of a questionable industry that rose to prominence during WW1 and WW2.

War is a racket and so is the industry that feeds on the perceived threat of one. The humongous US military budget ends up (at least a substantial of it) in private pockets somehow. The US is of course not the only country playing that racket, but it certainly is the undisputed biggest player. Speaking truth to principles and morals is simply out of the question for anyone involved, with that amount of capital changing hands.

So because others do wrong, it's okay for you to do wrong?

Also, because you didn't ask him the question, you don't know that he would agree with the SA "wrong".

Those (in this case, the general) who implicitly consent to doing wrong, should not preach others. If this said general had resigned to protest the USA's support for Saudi, yes, one can listen to his 'sayings'.

My question has nothing to do with the general, or anyone in the world but the OP.

My comment that the general wasn't even asked this question, was a bit of a different point, it unfortunately distracts from my main point.

The difference is that one of these regimes exists only because of US support. And the other has proven it's willing to infringe on intellectual property rights and steal technology when it's convenient to do so.

When I hear Saudi Arabia I always remember William Sampson, a Canadian citizen who was arrested while working in SA and tortured so badly he lost his mind for a time. Needless to say he confessed to everything countless times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNM-zZgNSM8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sampson_(author)

Jesus. What an appalling nightmare, I can't image what William went through. Thanks for sharing.

Not defending the Saudis here (I'm illegal in their country), but the US does those things too, except you don't even have to touch US soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

a) That is technically true and it makes me super angry that US in a way normalised torture.

b) While it is technically true, I assume the prevalence is orders of magnitude smaller. Still, cases like Abu Zubaydah are extremely disturbing.

Putin speaks a lot of this and we call it "what-about-ism"

Nobody was even talking about Russia, something has gone seriously wrong if you preemptively have to defend torture in paranoid expectation of downplaying other torture.

whataboutism would be the original comment bringing up American torture when someone criticized Saudi torture

Saudi Arabia is just practically ISIS. Their ruling elite is following same fundamentalist version of islam as isis.

PS : I don't mean to start a flamewar or offend anyone. But just how is this any different than ISIS capturing western journalists and doing all the unspeakable horrible things to those caught in their system.

ISIS is more violence and extreme. Saudi is Wahhabi and ISIS is Wahhabi on steroid: Wahhabi plus : Global Caliphate and Apocalyptism.

How much of Wahhabi not being a global caliphate is that they just can't right now?

And the Canadian government did nothing?

That's not very surprising considering the Canadian government recently paid 10M dollars to an enemy combatant and terrorist who murdered and wounded several US Soldiers [0]. And of course, received full apologies from Trudeau.

[0] https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-veteran-blinded-in-omar-khadr-...

What is this bullshit?

Khadr was an enemy combatant in an invasion of his country, abducted illegally when he was a child (15 year old), taken to Guantanamo, probably tortured, and sued for murder ( since when does Guantanamo have jurisdiction over killing between armed men in a war in Afghanistan??).

You really have to have a very fucked up view of the world to think illegally detaining and torturing a child is OK, whatever the circumstances. Where are the trials for the US war criminals in Afghanistan ? Why are their war crimes acceptable, but fucking children get sent to Guantanamo for fighting?!

Like China, there is really nothing… Dissuading murderous governments like Saudi Arabia from changing their ways. They can execute children, they can harvest organs, in prison huge numbers of religious minorities, and really there’s absolutely nothing any of us can do about it. Short of war, there’s absolutely nothing that can be done.

That's not true at all. We buy and use their oil, we supply them weapons etc. All that we need to do is to make sure that it's clear to our politician that such things matter to Americans. I'm just not sure that's the case though.

You make an excellent point: What WOULD happen if we stopped buying oil from Saudi Arabia, and slapped an 80% tariff on all Chinese made goods? Would these regimes change their ways, or begin a major pivot away from America? I’ve always been fascinated by the friendship between China and the Middle East. No pesky human rights to worry about, just the flow of oil and money is opposite directions.

Are you implying that US worries about human rights when Saudi Arabia is the ally?

There are countless ways for those countries to retaliate: war, terrorism, cyber attacks, disinformation campaigns, corporate or political espionage, releasing state secrets, stoking geopolitical tensions, creating anti-US coalitions, etc.

Not saying that punitive actions can’t be effective, but the US is still vulnerable to some forms of retaliation, especially if get initial action is as sudden and dramatic as the ones you describe.

> war, terrorism, cyber attacks, disinformation campaigns, corporate or political espionage, releasing state secrets, stoking geopolitical tensions, creating anti-US coalitions, etc.

You just listed every thing what The New Axis has done in the previous decade.

Saudi oil: nothing would happen. It’s a commodity. They’d sell their oil at market price minus epsilon. Regime would be fine.

China tariff: they’d devalue the yuan. They already have capital controls that keep money from leaving the country. Regime would be fine.

At the end of the day, might as well trade with them for our own benefit.

> Would these regimes change their ways, or begin a major pivot away from America?

Pivot to whom? China needs a large population of consumers. Besides the US they have their choice of countries full of young poor people, countries full of thrifty old people, and countries with consumers that are too small. They could drop the US if they’re willing to have a massive financial contraction. The US holds the ultimate trump card too, we need them less and less, and we can remove all shipping security guarantees for Chinese goods and watch their international trade collapse. It’s hard to fund influence campaigns when your economic house of cards crumbles around you.

The China envisioned in Made in China 2025 already has access to a large population of consumers: the Chinese population.

And the whole point of the Belt and Road initiative and their aircraft carrier program is to remove dependence on the US backed shipping security apparatus.

> The China envisioned in Made in China 2025 already has access to a large population of consumers: the Chinese population.

Not for long. The Chinese population is aging incredibly rapidly. Younger Chinese who could contribute to a stable consumer base will instead be crushed attempting to support the accelerating number in older generations retiring.

Older Chinese are still consumers, they'll bog down younger Chinese no more than US consumers will. It's not like US consumers are providing anything other than capital and a market as it stands. And a transition to higher end products and associated manufacturing means less low end workers (and less workers overall) needed to make that happen.

> Older Chinese are still consumers, they'll bog down younger Chinese no more than US consumers will.

On average people consume less and save more as they age. After retirement saving dries up and consumption takes a dive. After people turn 80 their activity falls off a cliff and they hardly spend anything. Their major costs are healthcare related but that’s a financial burden not a consumption boost for most societies including China.

I'm not sure that the idea that their population is aging follows the data. Their population age bubbles are younger than the US's. Their two bubbles are what are our older gen x and middle of the road millennials.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101677/population-distr...

Additionally, they have a different retirement system that doesn't dry up for individuals the same way. If it's important for China that older citizens continue being consumers, they'll make that happen.

Also, they have a large rural population that is unused and not very productive. Using that population can more than make up for aging workers.

Wouldn't companies like Boeing lose out from Chinese market if US does that? Many US companies don't want to lose out the Chinese market, also US also exports stuff like agriculture produce to China.

You no underestand. They are our friends.

Won't work, Afghanistan has no (legal) exports to speak of, and still there is the taliban gaining power. Iran and North Korea are hindered by very strict sanctions, yet their governments aren't any better.

War might work, if at least some larger part of the population wants change, like in Iraq. Sanctions didn't ever work.

Sanctions on Iraq did work, Saddam was contained. Might even have been swept away in the Arab spring later on. Unfortunately a bunch of religious fanatics invaded Iraq using a false pretense because God wanted them to. These fanatics didn't believe in diplomacy. After overthrowing the Taliban and the Baathists, they spurned all hopes of a negotiated peace and tried to wipe their foes off the map and remake the region in their own image. The defeated Baathist army was dismantled, the Taliban remnants hunted instead of negotiated with. Even the spurned Iraninans would have de-denuclearized out of fear in 2003 but why settle for that when you can have it all with regime change? And now here we are debating the evil of these once vanquished foes...

Saddam Hussein was contained regarding neighboring states. As to atrocities towards the Iraqi people, sanctions and loosing the wars just put those into full gear, because Hussein had to quell the brewing rebellion. So you are right, sanctions may work in preventing a war. But they do nothing beneficial for the internal workings of a country, like executing teens for protesting in the OP.

> We buy and use their oil

We actually buy a very small amount these days. US is a net exporter.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...

It's not about the oil being purchased by the US but that most oil is traded in USD and not some other currency.

That seems an entirely different thing.

Most international trade is denominated in USD, often even when trade is between two non-US companies.

> We buy and use their oil

Although that is true, the US imports less and less oil from Saudi. In fact, it’s been dropping steeply since shale oil became cheaper in 2014 and we haven’t imported less from Saudi since the oil glut of the mid-1980s.[1] I don’t think the US stopping Saudi oil imports is going to worry them as China is their major market now and China is another repressive regime. We should stop protecting their shipping though as we do for the entire globe still.

1: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...

How much oil does the US buy from Iran? I think actual embargoes make a difference.

> How much oil does the US buy from Iran? I think actual embargoes make a difference.

Iran is still a brutal repressive regime. Sanctions make it more difficult for Iran to gain and project power but don’t stop them from committing horrific crimes against minorities and generally innocent Iranians.

> Iran is still a brutal repressive regime

Whatever it is now, it has been brought in to existence by US (CIA) intervention

I think that’s simplistic. The CIA (not saying they did stand up things) tried the opposite and supported a failing regime that was more open but did little for the lower classes so the revolutionaries came in took over and showed the previous regime how to really be tyrannical.

Most Iranians would depose the current leadership if they had free elections, so it’s not as if the population wants them, but like China, and North Korea only one party can have legitimate candidates and they have the guns.

> Most Iranians would depose the current leadership if they had free elections

I wonder which agency played a role in stopping an elected government from assuming power. Its reeks double standards if its ok for USA/CIA to obstruct democracy but if somebody else does it -- oh the horror and injustice.

As long as fountainheads of brutal regimes, be it Shah of Iran or the crown prince of SA, are 'our' guy -- totally kosher.

The Shah was not more open. He was replacing the hope for democracy. Read about what the SAVAK did, he was just as brutal as the current regime.

The US and the UK are the primary reasons why there aren't any meaningful elections in Iran anymore.

The Cia is really helped out by what they do being so immoral people don't want to believe they did it. Everyone always wants to try to look at alternate takes of things where theyre not drug and gun smuggling kingpins that topples governments for more black ops money.

They know their days of selling oil are numbered, that's why they're investing in tech, so stop taking their money.

The oil supply used to be strategic. Now its a mix of:

* selling them US debt, aka they fund the deficits (national and private).

* selling them weapons and financial services

* habit, traditions etc Where else will we keep our aircraft carriers?

* they're a defacto ally of Israel and they generally help on our special projects in the middle east.

I don't like that we support them. I think Iran is a much better choice in the region. But that's why we keep doing it...

Definitely Iran used to be our second favorite ally in the region. However, if they were overthrown their footsies with Russia probably would kind of muddy things ... kind of like Turkey where you’re not sure they’ll always be on your side or that you can be in their side.

One of the huge advantages to the US/Saudi collaboration is the pricing of oil in dollars. The supply helped for a time, and we've weaned off it a bit through fracking, but that's a game of diminishing returns.

The worry for the US is if oil becomes priced in yuan and sold in yuan. It undermines the purchasing power of the US dollar while at the same time diminishing the effectiveness of US sanctions.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3128103/c...

> in prison huge numbers of 𝚛̶𝚎̶𝚕̶𝚒̶𝚐̶𝚒̶𝚘̶𝚞̶𝚜̶ minorities

this reminds me of another country, takes pride in its democracy, where citizens love marijuana, government don’t.

different places, different basis for prosecution.

indeed, and it looks like neither thinks having a death penalty is somehow problematic...

We don't have exile, no penal colonies, no ostracism, no corporal punishment and life term prison sentences are at least as cruel and more expensive than execution.

Unfortunately there are no cheap and efficient options for removing someone permanently from society right now outside of death penalty.

Outlawing people may work, but for various reasons it is non starter. You cannot lift protection from the law nowadays from someone.

Also reminds me of certain country that indiscriminately murders innocent non-citizens around the world... Truly different places, different justifications...

In addition to what others called out, we could also open our borders and allow people from these places to come and live with us instead. Foot voting is very powerful and even if just a small percentage leaves these countries that can become a real problem for those governments and create pressure to change.

Probably millions left Russia after Iron Curtain fell and nothing really changed there.

> Short of war, there’s absolutely nothing that can be done.

Embargo them to the neck, like Japan before WW2.

Given the fact that Saudi Arabia is an US' puppet regime, they(the US) could do everything they want with it.

If you go to Saudi Arabia you will see that Arabia is made of hundreds of different loosely integrated ethnic groups, Saudis are just one of them that took the power in the country.

Removing the Saudis from power is extremely simple, they can just support other ethnic groups. The problem is that you never know if what is created is much worse than what it is there today, just like what happened in Egypt choosing the Muslim Brotherhood or in Libya, unstabilizing all the north of Africa.

China is a totally different thing. China is a gigantic country, almost a continent with more than 1200 million people, a big army,powerful industry, natural defenses and ethnically dominated by Han people.

> natural defenses

Not really. While China improved its “natural defenses” by very unnaturally invading and subjugating Tibet it is still ringed by hostile countries or, in the case of Russia and North Korea, highly temperamental countries with very few natural barriers apart from the Himalayas which only covers one side. This is the reason the Great Wall was built.

> Saudi Arabia is an US' puppet regime

The opposite is true here.

> Short of war, there’s absolutely nothing that can be done

Here are some things that can be done:

- Stop exporting weapons and military and police equipment.

- Support women and them starting their own businesses, so they'll make money and get more influence in society. Women are, when looking at large numbers of people, more often altruistic minded (compared to men) and less likely to be psychopaths.

- Education, provide for free over the Internet.

- Support pro democracy organizations. But I guess one would need to be careful, if doing this, so people won't just start protesting on the street and get shot down, for example see in Iran recently (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-gasoline-protests-id...).

Benevolent AI-guided Saudi populous uprising.

Hackernews, so of course China has to be brought up.

Horrible governments who do horrible things, so of course China has to be brought up.

The USA has no problem applying non violent pressure to Russia and Iran to change their ways.

Saudi Arabia just gets a free pass because their collaboration is important to America's strategic interests.

Some context: Mustafa was charged with participating in the Arab Spring uprisings during 2011-2012, where the discriminated Shia minority rose up again the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932012_Saudi_Arabia...

Weren't they all peaceful protests? Eg sit-ins, demonstrations, marches etc?

There wasn't really any "uprising" in terms of armed people actually trying to overthrow the government was there?

Sorry if I'm taking uprising too literally...

Deutsche Welle, the german public broadcaster has a bunch of fantastic videos on this if you're interested:

Egyptian Women and the Arab Spring 1/2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbCSYJDeoCI)

Egyptian Women and the Arab Spring 2/2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dfbW8FfHbQ)

Ten years after the Arab Spring, is there still hope for democracy? 1/2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIhDQ6YVOvQ)

Ten years after the Arab Spring, is there still hope for democracy? 2/2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxN7FCNOD4I)

Not entirely, there were violent riots and at least one policeman died as well. It's unclear if Mustafa was actually involved though.

Such a tragedy, to execute a teenager for such "crimes". It makes me sad, and angry... Not only they kill children in Yemen, but also their own citizens.

What can we do about this, maybe not much, these tyrants are supported by their friends in the West, but we can surely try. Pressure politicians to stop supporting them, selling them weapons, allowing their dirty money into the financial system.

Maybe even smaller steps could make an impact, like what if Muslims stop going to Hajj as long as these monsters are in powers. They earn big money from that.

another reason for me to go renewable. downvote me but i can't justify paying a country for their oil when they do this type of humanitarian violations to a child. same reason i refuse to buy apple and nike. i can do without until others realize that if they don't play fairly they don't get to play at all, at least without my money.

If anybody knows the crimes Mustafa was accused of, that would be interesting. I did a search but I couldn't find any details. From the article, it seems they were "thought crimes". Something of some religious significance perhaps?

Article says it was for a photo on his phone. My guess is gay stuff.

Is it more politically plalatable for them to execute someone for protests rather than homosexuality? What was he supposedly protesting?

On the positive side they did not get him off a plane and beat him, that would be a matter of outcry from country leaders all over the world.

I see the hypocrisy. But you didn't mean to downplay the the very real human rights violations of the Belarusian regime, right?

Is this news outlet reputable? I want to make sure this is factual before sharing.

Here's the BBC reporting the same news: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57492219

Thank you. Can't miss a beat when the stakes are high...

Executing a kid for protests that didn't get anywhere is an indicator of fragility. Do they really think it sends a signal of strength to go through with this? This makes it seem like when there's a proper insurrection organized by adults it will have a real chance of toppling the regime.

SA does not need accountability

saudi arabia can do whatever they want because of the petrodollar. i’m surprised they don’t take advantage of that more often thsn they do.

And good old Uncle Sam sells 10 billion a year in weapons to these pricks - along with billions in aid for Israel to "mow the grass" (IDF phrase) in Gaza. Disgraceful.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/02/04/i...

https://besacenter.org/mowing-grass-gaza/

Well, they have to recoup somehow the dollars they given to SA for oil....

The europeans are doing it smarter by selling them cars and nice clothing with "high value" brand names on it....

Do we? I remember nuclear submarines for Israel driving through Europe. And the Mossad got stuck in mud ^^

https://www.newstalk.com/news/german-mayor-issues-bill-to-is...

Also there's a lot of advertisements for homing missiles made in Germany ...

"Aerospace and Defense" is a very nice company name for a weapons manufacturer.

A manufacturer i know was forced by their client to help setup a division China.

After a year and quality problems because of using inferior components ( and so reducing their BOM), the client reverted his decision.

While your comment was being sarcastic. Quality is a thing and it's not just slapping brand names on it.

I don't think it would change but free countries should break off diplomatic relations with SA based on these kind of political killings. But then the US does it. And now Canada is playing with arresting political dissidents. Maybe the world is just going through the next iteration. Rome burned. America will burn too. But maybe the next iteration will be better.

A normal behavior for a US ally in the middle east.

typo in the title, should be Saudi Barbaria

Anyone know details about the photo?

From what I gather, even though some of the offences were committed by him when he was a minor, some of them weren't. So it's not like they are applying "death penalty for children" as the article claims.

Well, don't keep us hanging. Please explain what the offences were.

I don't know, I'm just saying that the article mentions that only some of the offences were committed when he was a minor, so the title of this submission is misleading.

As you can see by the number of downvotes, sometimes reason is unwelcome even on HN.

The USA has the death penalty for children, so lets jump off the high horse on that one.

Mustafa al-Darwish also was older than 18 for part of it (And one assumes the terrorism charge would have been later in the timeline) which fits with SA saying they no long execute children, which would make them better than the USA on that issue.

As you can see by the number of downvotes, sometimes reason is unwelcome even on HN.

The problem with this comment is that it fails to account for the fact that US and other democratic countries have a reasonable judicial system that while flawed is not totally under the thumb of the government. One can be sure that a death sentence in western courts is atleast well debated and pondered over, the same unfortunately can't be said of middle East, where just writing bad about a ruler can get u chopped to pieces.

Uh, I think he got downvoted for being wrong, not for being reasonable. The US used to execute people who were minors when they committed their offense, but no longer does. It was abolished by the Supreme Court in 2005, and the last time it happened was in 2003 (the execution of a 32 year old man who, when he was 17, deliberately burned two people to death.) So his information is almost two decades out of date.

The 2005 SCOTUS decision abolishing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons

It's whataboutism, not "reason".

All death penalties are not equal.

When was the last time the USA killed a child for a photo they didn't like? If you were to be a child and got killed in the US, you surely deserved it. If you were a child and got killed in Saud, you probably just pissed off some little fascist.

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