Baseball's dirty little secret is out – we decided to experiment
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Foolish Baseball has IMO a great take on a list of things the MLB could do to "fix" baseball, with not blatantly allowing super sticky stuff being one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh_F8WtrDCo (I also like the idea of a shot clock for pitchers)
If sticky stuff didn't negatively impact the end product, then I'd say just allow it. But it does, even though I love seeing wiffle ball-esque nastiness, because it results in far fewer balls put in play. I want to see fielders making great catches and throws, crazy bassrunning, and legitimate hustled triples, not _just_ whiffs and homeruns and Shohei Ohtani.
So maybe there's a middle ground where they could provide a legal product beyond just a rosin bag that pitchers can use to ensure control without artificially boosting spinrates so significantly, and then continue to collect balls throughout the year and issue harsh suspensions for illegal foreign substances found.
I don't blame pitchers for having used it in the current environment, seeing as their paychecks were on the line and EVERYONE else was doing it too because it wasn't being enforced until social media put a spotlight on it (except DeGrom seemingly).
Do you mean like the last 2 years or something longer than my entire life span
I feel like basketball has a similar issue with optimization for shooting 3 pointers vs. 2 pointers. It makes for a far less exciting game, IMHO.
Of course, they didn't really ban it. They selectively enforce it. Joe West wants another headline, so he confiscates a dirty hat. And no umpire ever even raised an eyebrow at Mariano Rivera having some kayfabe ball trajectory that no one else does. It's a gatekeeping rule that allows the league to have another hand in who gets in trouble and who gets to excel.
It means exactly the opposite actually... kayfabe is pig-latin for "be fake." It's when you play the part and refuse to admit it's fiction.
It was banned in two steps. In 1920, players could assigned up to two pitchers to throw the spitball. After that season, 14 players were grandfathered in and allow to continue throwing a spitball. Burleigh Grimes threw the last legal spitball in 1934.
Carl May threw a pitch that killed Ray Chapmen in 1920, which the spitball rules still allowed teams to have spitballers. May was generally a wild pitcher, in fact he had hit Chapman's teammate, and manager, Tris Speaker in the head in 1918. May's claim was Chapman was crowding the plate, He throw a high inside fastball, that his May's teammates claim was a strike, to brush him off the plate. It was an unwritten rule about brush back pitches that lead to Chapman's death. Chapman's death had nothing to do with getting the spitball getting banned.
Rivera was the best pitcher I have seen in throwing a cutter. His long fingers let me get unique grip on it.
The problem that MLB didn't see was that my providing information about spin rates, pitchers would be able to start experimenting, see results, and adjust.
I agree baseball selectively enforces rules. But I think the spitball has been enforced since the 1980s/Gaylord Perry era. And Joe West is a particularly egregious umpire, probably the worst in the game.
Casual viewers like games with lots of hits and lots of runs, and the MLB has gone through a lot of effort to facilitate this (ie: runner starting on second in extras), but as someone who is really into the long-haul aspect of baseball (I like the whole farming and development system, I like the idea that baseball is not fair in terms of cap space, I like that the season is so long with so many games, I like the strategy around managing the bullpen), I really like watching "boring" games where pitchers are just throwing disgusting nasty pitches for 7-8 innings. There is nothing more exciting to me than a no-no. I really don't have any issue with foreign substances -- it's still impressive nonetheless.
To me, baseball is the only sport where fandom really makes sense. In basketball, you'll see fans of players moreso than teams -- their fandom will follow ie: LeBron around. And why shouldn't they be mostly fans of players? The coach and management makes little difference. This is opposed to in baseball where when you're a fan of a team, you're also a fan of the management and the owners and the coaches and the little decisions they make over the time-span of weeks (and even years) to get to a winning team. A lot of pieces have to come together, you can't just buy a superstar -- although you're free to try.
When one pitcher can throw nasty stuff (not necessarily throwing hard, just throwing precisely) and save his team from using the arm of someone in the pen, it's super exciting to me. If a little bit of pine tar is facilitating that, it's all the same to me.
I don't see why supplementing your endocrine system is categorically different than anything else these career athletes do.
It seems like more realistically, baseball is the only support that you understand enough to appreciate to this degree? I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that soccer, for example, has less tactical depth and management pressure than baseball?
With baseball the pitcher of course plays a similar role, they have a major outsized effect since they are involved in every single defensive play, and in a critical way. But they can't physically play very much. And then on offense the best you can do is put your best folks at the start of the lineup so they get an extra at-bat over the course of a game.
(Of course none of this justifies the claim that only in baseball does team-fandom make sense; fandom isn't a logical construct to begin with and doesn't need some logical reason to exist.)
That being said, if you haven't seen the movie Moneyball, I'd recommend it. Baseball was truly transformed by computerized statistics, and because baseball is basically decided as a series of batter-pitcher matchups, it lends itself to being predictable in a way that other sports can't be. Baseball is the monte carlo simulation of sports.
Soccer is about flow not stoppages so you only can sub 3 players and the game doesn't stop as much with injury time added on later. Players are being asked to make more meta decisions.
Doesn't make fandom only make sense though in baseball. Fandom is so much bigger in soccer, it includes national struggles and regional struggles and is so engrained in local culture. Soccer hooliganism exists where baseball hooliganism doesn't.. baseball has a long term view on passionate (if my team loses it is okay because we have 160 more) where in soccer one goal decides a match and every match means something always to some group of people.
If you propose unlimited doctoring then I propose unlimited corking and composite bats with unlimited diameter. Then together we can make a complete joke of baseball.
Pitch doctoring should be the biggest scandal in sports - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27496095 - June 2021 (183 comments)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Australian_ball-tampering...
Sadly Manfred is allowing this cheating to continue. He didn’t punish the Astros or Red Sox significantly so everyone is cheating now. It really reminds me of society in California that quickly has become somewhat lawless towards property crime.
https://www.milb.com/live-stream-games
MLB looks more like a chess game than a baseball game. Who wants to watch a no-hitter really? I mean it's cool that your team is doing well, but it's just plain horrible to sit through. (At least if you are sober and doing nothing else.) Half the Dodger games I attended, the fans left early to beat the traffic.
Sell the used balls to fans. Maybe with a video clip of that play. It would probably be profitable.
This could be the next NFT! They could sell the rights ahead of time (1st hit attempt for _x_ player), or after the fact. Maybe if you catch the ball you get the rights automatically to incentivize buying tickets to the games.
They already go through on average 80-100 balls per game anyway, which means the average ball only sees 2-3 pitches as it is.
Sure they do, in droves:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tech%27s+dirty+little+sec...
> What's the secret if it's been a thing forever and has always been public?
I don't think the assumptions in your question are true. I'd wager that a _lot_ more people are talking about ball tampering now than ever before.
And a post about "Tech's Dirty Little Secret" would be appropriately downvoted off the front page of this website.
> I don't think the assumptions in your question are true. I'd wager that a _lot_ more people are talking about ball tampering now than ever before.
How can it be a secret if "more people are talking about ball tampering than ever before"? Where's the secret?
There have been lots of highly-upvoted and heavily-commented "dirty secret is out" posts on HN's front page. I don't want to argue so I'll just leave it at that.
But that's what I'm saying. This has been talked to death. For years and years it has been talked about. Someone hearing about it for the first time does not make something a secret.
> I don't want to argue so I'll just leave it at that.
"I don't want to argue so I'll just argue and then say I don't want to argue" ? Anyway if ball tampering is a new thing to you, I hope you learned how terrible and problematic it is for the sport.
Scuffed balls, spitballs, various sticky substances, etc has been used to alter baseball pitches for decades. A pitcher from my high school got caught (and banned from the league) for doing this in 1992. It's all fairly obvious how it works from a physics perspective. There's absolutely no secret at all.
Pitchers have always added substances to baseballs, but they were mostly doing it by feel. It was only roughly a decade ago that technology was first introduced that could accurately measure a pitch's movement. It was even more recently that technology was introduced that could accurately measure the spin of a pitch. Now that pitchers are armed with this tech, they can optimize for spin and movement. They can experiment with all sorts of different substances, do the exact experiments described in this article, literally hire chemists to come up with better formulas, and share the most effective substances with their teammates.
In the end, this measurement technology has led to a drastic improvement in the effectiveness of the use of these foreign substances. That has altered the balance between pitchers and hitters that is important to keep the game actually entertaining to watch.
There's a good analogy to professional road cycling. Before Lance Armstrong, of course cyclists did drugs and tried to gain ever dietary/fitness/metabolic advantage they could through experimentation. But then we got well-funded and systematic methods to measure the effects of the cheat, methods to cleanly implement the cheat at the professional level, and methods to bully everyone on the team into compliance...
This particular form of manipulating the ball is just too widespread and too effective and that is why the crackdown is happening.
https://youtu.be/1bqOOyMjCCM?t=157
Though there should probably be a single "approved" substance, and the rest be banned so we're not dealing with balls covered in whatever random slime the team came up with
There are multiple people in the league that corroborate the fact that most pitchers are doing this. Some clubs are allegedly paying chemists to improve their doctoring. It's come too far from putting a little spit on the ball. Time to drag it into the light.