A notebook and a pen can be a highly effective personal productivity system | Hacker News Reader

A notebook and a pen can be a highly effective personal productivity system

waterflowon.com

95 pointswenting56 comments

I have seriously tried many productivity systems during my career, and I find that they all have their advantages, but they just can’t cover all my needs. Finally I had to abandon them all, and return to where I began.

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On a similar note from 2004: Merlin Mann's "Hipster PDA"

  Building your first Hipster PDA
  1. get a bunch of 3"x5" file cards
  2. clip them together with a binder clip
  3. there is no step 3

http://www.43folders.com/2004/09/03/introducing-the-hipster-...

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw title, glad someone else linked to it.

My first association was this: http://73primenumbers.com/ (earlier discussion here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1181713 )

Actually, pen & paper have magical properties, which are probably backed up by some psychology, which is not known to me (yet?). Obviously, things like geometry for games & effects, drawing interface mockups and others involving visual diagrams are much easier to do on paper, but also things like creating project estimates by splitting it in subtasks, writing a list of features & ideas to consider etc - basically creative induction of lists, works better on paper even though you would think computer would be better for it, since you can insert and move around text. It's like when I sit at the computer, my creativity shuts, but when I sit at the paper, it starts flowing.

Yea, I find that sometimes happens to me too. With a pen and pad, it seems like my mind just subconsciously clears out all the potential distractions and translates that brain power to creative uses. Almost like it's optimizing for what it expects me to do.

I think with a pen & paper we are actually focused on completing the tasks written down, instead of working to record the stuffs to do into the productivity system.

Exactly. With a pen and paper, YOU have to be the system. You have to be more conscious, present, and aware when you make decisions.

> also things like creating project estimates by splitting it in subtasks, writing a list of features & ideas to consider etc - basically creative induction of lists

While I agree with you overall with regards to pen & paper's magical properties, I'd disagree with you on this particular point solely because I created a web-based app last year to solve this exact problem for myself. I cannot do problem-solving on a computer and have to write out variables and formulas on paper but I find making lists on paper a chore, especially since I have bad handwriting. My text app helps address that because it is just like a text-editor with tabs and code-folding. Workflowy.com is another alternative and it offers a lot more features.

I love pen and paper for hashing out ideas and concepts but I will never go back when it comes to lists.

> which are probably backed up by some psychology

Don't have actual research references, but I always remember notes I write by hand better than the ones I type. I suspect it is a neuro-motor function of some sort. When things are recalled the brain perhaps recalls the movement of the fingers and that aids. It is like smell perhaps for emotional things -- very effective.

hearing these two posts made my a bit happier; to be honest. I'd felt that there is something "wrong" with me being not as comfortable in typing as I am with pen and paper. Yes, I am more productive with plain pen and paper and I will stick to it.

I only need pen and paper when I'll have to draw anything (diagrams etc). For all other cases it's much faster and more convient to write it down in Workflowy. I've never really liked to write things by hand, so maybe that's the reason…

How do you organize your workflowy so that things don't get lost?

My main node in Workflowy is the work journal. The structure is year - week no - date. Other nodes (ideas, projects, travel etc) don't get that much input so it's easy to navigate.

I never really write down text much, it is always diagrams, squigles, a graph, a formula.

There is always a stack of legal size papers (about 20 or so) on my desk right in front of my keyboard. I write on it as a sort of a quick scratchbook of what I am thinking or to organize things and concept that don't fit in my brain. Looking back at the used pages, I see a bunch of circles connected with lines for example, as I was trying to figure out a good topology for process dependencies, stuff like that. I could not find anything digital that approximates the pen+paper responsiveness, ease of use and resolution.

Also looking back 3 days ago, I actually cannot even figure out what my squigles mean, they had their purpose at the time, but it was a very short term purpose. For me it is more of a swap-device-like system than a permanent storage.

I recommend you buy a decent pad and pen, I have a Moleskine one next to me... I'm almost afraid to write on it!

Moleskines are the Rolex/Montblanc of the notebook world, all brand-name with not much behind it.

That story about Hemingway using a Moleskine is total crap.

Anything using Clairefontaine 90g paper is better, such as Quo Vadis Habana, some Rhodias, Exacompta etc.

Especially if you use a fountain pen.

I think I just like the design. I do also have a Mont Blanc! /me hides

Attention: knowing the brand of your notebook is no longer trendy. Now you have to know the brand of the paper your notebook uses.

and the brand of ink used in offsetting process at the printing house :-)

Hm, you are right. Moleskines are not very good do a fountain pen, but fine for pencil :-)

I never write in pen, strangely. Can't beat the pencil.

Yes, fountain pens. Stuff of legends. Which one do you prefer?

In my current price range, Lamy 2000 and Pilot Capless. Saving up for a Pelikan M1000 and/or Visconti Homo Sapiens.

I use a pencil, so I can erase and make changes, but a good one. I buy German Faber-Castell pencils at the local art supply store. They are much better than the typical yellow school pencils: better wood, better lead, they sharpen easily and don't need resharpening as often.

The newer Moleskine books tend to fall apart easily. This is unfortunate, since they do so much correctly (size of page and color of paper being two big ones for me).

In the search for a replacement, this blog reviews many alternatives, and is generally a good read.

http://blackcover.net/

Following up on this. I ordered a couple of Piccadilly Essential Notebooks (small size) -- one hard cover, one soft cover.

So far so good. I like the paper and the size. The soft cover easily fits in my back pocket. The hard cover fits as well, but of course isn't as comfortable. Time will tell if they hold up to daily use and abuse.

Extra bonus. I'm using the softcover right now, and even page 1 will stay open on its own. This seems very well designed. The link I posted in the parent has a much longer review of these.

You just called out the single most important hindrance to productivity: being afraid to note something down.

I too went through several Moleskines a few years ago because I didn't want to ruin them with crap pages. It sucked - whenever I did a page that looked "bad", I just moved to a new moleskine.

Sadly, notes are not supposed to be neat, much like your brain isn't. My biggest productivity improvement in recent years (apart from disabling any new email notifications) was the day I stopped being "afraid" to take notes on my notebooks. In the end, they always look awesome and valuable, regardless of how careful I was about making them look neat.

I still have that problem with Moleskines. I bought some cheaper Piccadilly notebooks. That made it easier to mark them up. I also recycle old calendar/planner Moleskines from previous years, so I feel free to just abuse them with anything I feel like writing or drawing.

Piccadilly notepads are a cheap alternative to Moleskine. They're available for $3-$4, IIRC, at Borders bookstores.

What's the advantage, if I may ask?

From my perspective: I've got a $.59 3x5 composition pad that I bought that works wonders for me. What do I get for a higher investment?

Those $.59 3x5 memo pads fall apart after a couple weeks in my back pocket. Moleskines are/were more durable. They seem to be getting worse and worse quality now, so I use a binder clip + a dozen blank white index cards.

I prefer them to a notepad/moleskine now. They're thick enough that i can jot stuff down using my hand as a backing.

Once I don't need a card anymore, I can snap a photo of it with Evernote and shred or toss it in the recycle box. I replace it with a shiny new cheap white index card. Thinning the herd, so to speak.

The thickness of the cards does sound like an appealing draw -- so far, my biggest gripe about the cheap memo pad is that the text can bleed through, plus it can sometimes be a pain in the ass to get in the margins.

Thanks for the tip.

That was another complaint I had about the memopads, bleed through. Index cards end up being cheaper (free in my case, as I raid the office supply room).

I carry these: http://www.moleskine.com/catalogue/classic/cahier/cardboard_...

The main reasons are that they're thin and fit in my back pocket easy so it goes everywhere, and since I'm always sitting on it, the paged being sewn in prevent it from falling apart. Composition pads are generally bulkier and glued together or spiral bound which is also pocket-unfriendly. I've got other 3x5 notebooks that are bulkier than the Cahier Journals and I just never take them with me. I'd probably avoid sitting on a binder clip too.

They also have rounded corners which help prevent the pages from catching on my pocket and getting folded/torn/ugly, and it has a nice inner pocket for receipts or other sources of notes. Superfluous, I know, but I like the cream colored paper better than white paper, and the plain cardboard cover develops a nice patina that other stuff generally doesn't.

They're about 3 bucks and only 64 pages each, which is quite steep if you write a lot, but I only go through one maybe every 2 or 3 months, which makes the cost difference negligible to me.

I love my daily (electronic) journal, I can grep it. I love my kindle, it is (currently) holding 93 books. But I couldn't live without my 3 subject notebook and fountain pen. Maybe it is my age, but there is still something special about putting ink on paper vs. typing on a keyboard that helps me think.

Which fountain pen, pray tell.

Pilot 78G with a fine nib. I found it on eBay for $10 with 3 ink cartridges. The only think I don't like about it is that it needs to be capped when not writing.

So you really think software will never replace pen and paper? Surprising to see this coming from a productivity app. What's clear is that despite countless task managers, the to-do list problem hasn't been solved yet. Still using pen and paper to-do lists is like still carrying a physical address book. There are massive efficiency and satisfaction gains to be had from digitizing to-do lists. Check out LazyMeter.com if you're interested in a solution that's faster than pen & paper, just as simple, and actually works.

I've trotted out this a number of times, but, well, here it is: http://73primenumbers.com/pencilpaper.html

Pen and paper I find is useful only for remembering things.

If I try to use it as a part of my thought process, I find it slows me down frustratingly so. By the time I finish sketching a 10-second doodle or making a note, I have already invalidated the idea and come up with another, better design/idea/process. Rinse, repeat.

I'm usually happier throwing everything around in my head, and then eventually distilling the results.

I find that dividing tasks into smaller subsets and setting 5-10 minute countdowns for each one to be quite productive as well.

I built nift.ie a while back if you want to check it out - it's incomplete and I think it only has one regular user, me! - but I find it very useful for myself, which makes it worth building :D - actually I couldn't function without it ...

I like it. Thanks for sharing.

Great job man, looks good and works quite smoothly, only wish it had a countdown option for sub tasks. I find that having a time limit motivates me to get started right away and stay focused to finish before time runs out. Maybe even have a points system to turn it into a personal game. Overall Nift.ie works great though, you should post this and show it to HN. I'm sure they can give you even more valuable feedback.

I already did, and didn't get much feedback :)

Anyway, right now my focus has changed - I'm launching a new service, my second, and the whole reason I got into web development in the first place ...

I've tried many, many task + notes apps and I've settled on the following simple analog system: a small spiral bound weekly appointment notebook where that I use to keep track of what to do and a larger spiral bound lined notebook where I can write notes, doodle, do mockups, and work through algorithms. It works for me.

Exact same system, here. Little notebook for general calendaring, big notebook for specific tasks, note taking, sketching, etc.

And liberal use of checkboxes on both to trigger my OCD reward pathways.

I find computer apps to be counter-productive to me. Having another "screen" in addition to my computer monitors gives me that import mental swap from task management to execution. Then again, maybe I just like watching myself write.

I too have the small notebook and big notebook system (let's call it SNBN). The small notebook is a to-do list, the big notebook is for free-flowing ideas. Online I've tried a notebook in Google docs, a tasks spreadsheet, and workflowy, but nothing has jumped out as the clear winner.

Maybe not as hipster as a binder clip but I really like Rhodia notepads.

Also, to force you to slow down a bit and put more concious effort into your notekeeping you can use a fountain pen. We were required to use those as kids in Germany, not sure if that's still the case.

+1 on notebook and paper, I keep one next to me at all times with a really nice collection of pens. Ideas, rants, future ideas to flesh out later, words, drawings, scribble, an outlet of creativity, my tao, my struggles, my desires, all in a tiny book...

If you want to back up your paper notebook, LiveScribe is a nice option: http://www.livescribe.com/en-us/smartpen/

I wonder where LiveScribe fits into people's personal productivity system. Is anyone using it successfully?

Interesting point, maybe I should try it, because it sounds very reasonable.

There's a reason this subject is news: so many have moved away from it for good reason that it's now a novelty.

Maybe we'll have a subsequent thread about assembler being highly effective.

And at the same time, there are a lot of people so mired in the various GTD schemes and utilities that they aren't actually getting any work done.

Writing something on paper is not more or less efficient than typing something into the computer. In fact, it's sometimes a nice palate cleanser when you've just spent hours mired in code.

I agree.

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